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Politics : America Under Siege: The End of Innocence -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (7633)	10/17/2001 2:07:05 PM
From: joseph krinsky	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 27666

Read the header- Started By: Teresa Lo Date: Sep 12, 2001 2:13 PM 2001 SEP 12 -- Donations A bank account has been established by a fellow Silicon Investor member to collect contributions in support of the families of rescuers who gave their lives yesterday: Message 16338403 There is also a collection set up for the Red Cross, by Amazon.com: s1.amazon.com 2001 SEP 11 -- Original Thread Header To paraphrase Franklin D. Roosevelt's speech made on December 8, 1941: "Today, September 11, 2001 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by terrorists of unknown origin." This marks the end of innocence for all of us who live in the Free World. Freedom, and the price that must be paid for it, will forever be redefined. Teresa For those who wish to discuss the effects of this event on the North American economy and our capital markets, our existing thread is at: Subject 36945 ___________________ You decided that you were going to hijack the thread and turn it into an anti zionist thread. Why not just start your own thread? Or is it that you feel that since this is a popular thread, you don't care, because this is where the people are? I don't care if your wife is jewish or not, it has nothing to do with anything, unless you're trying to sell her, and you consider that a good selling point. If that's the case, let me look at her teeth and maybe I'll make an offer.

To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (7633)	10/17/2001 2:13:13 PM
From: Michael Watkins	Respond to of 27666

America's is a target because its a big, obvious, global target. America isn't deeply involved in the middle east primarily because of Israel. Two reasons: A) dependence on oil / energy, and B) historical desire to have troops and allies in the middle east for strategic reasons - largely to do with past World Wars, the Cold War, China, and overall global stability. Sure the security of Israel (lots of innocent women and children live there, don't you forget that) from enemies - some of who really do want to drown them all in the sea - is one of the reasons why the US is there, but I don't buy it at all that religious underpinnings are the PRIMARY reasons why the US is so involved. And I am not arguing for, or against, any specific Israeli or Palestinian policy, only that there are plenty of innocents on all fronts. Result of not securing the energy supply? Lets talk significant recession, energy inflation unlike what we've seen, or worse consequences. Lets not kid ourselves, without oil there will be a ton of unemployed yuppy computer programmers out there, with families, starving, who don't have other skills to offer! Including me. Although I can dig ditches and fix plumbing so perhaps not too badly off. LOL

To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (7633)	10/17/2001 2:35:11 PM
From: Nikole Wollerstein	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 27666

Emile friends among us: October 15, 2001 -- PORTLAND, Maine - Isanu Dyson, a fifth-generation >American who converted to Islam three years ago, is prepared to join the >jihad against the United States, and believes government workers are fair >targets. >The 24-year-old Maine resident, who carries a dagger and 3-foot sword, told >The Post it would be "noble" to enlist with the Taliban and fight against >American soldiers in Afghanistan. >"I am a Muslim-American, not an American-Muslim - I have a greater >obligation to them than to anybody," he said. >"I pray when the day comes that Allah doesn't make me a coward - that I >don't run away from the fight." >Dyson, who spoke from his apartment in Portland, said "colonialists," >including the United States and Britain, created a monster by trying to >oppress Muslims and propping up governments sympathetic to the West. >"Now the monster they created is biting them back," he said. "The U.S. >might be an economic and military superpower, but Islam is a religious and >manpower superpower - we are 1 billion people." >Dyson's inflammatory comments have drawn the attention of Portland cops. >Portland Police Chief Mike Chitwood told The Post, "These sort of comments >are disheartening and sickening. >"If he feels that way, he should go and join Afghanistan." >Dyson, who says he began carrying the sword and dagger after Sept. 11 for >"self-protection," admitted he felt uncomfortable making such comments >while living in America, and said he had considered going to Afghanistan >immediately after the attack. >"I would consider it more noble for me to go and get myself out of the >country, renounce my citizenship, end up in Afghanistan, pick up a gun and >fight alongside everyone else against the enemy - American soldiers," he >said. >But he said he consulted an Islamic scholar for guidance, and was told his >first responsibility was to a young son from his previous marriage. >Dyson, who raced motorcycles before turning to Islam, said he would >continue to obey American law - "up until the point where I would have to >disobey the law of Islam." >He claimed he knew one of the Sept. 11 kamikaze hijackers, Nawaf Alhazmi, >two years ago. >Dyson said he met Alhazmi, who was aboard the plane that killed nearly 200 >Americans when it crashed into the Pentagon, through the Muslim community >when Alhazmi first came to America as an illegal immigrant. >Dyson was living in his hometown of San Diego, Calif., and said he helped >Alhazmi settle in, not realizing he was part of a deadly plot against >civilians. >Terrorists Mohamed Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi spent their final night in >Portland before going to Boston and hijacking the planes they piloted into >the World Trade Center. >Dyson said he believes that Islamic laws forbid the killing of civilians >and that the hijackers were wrong to involve innocent people. >But Dyson said that crashing a plane into the Pentagon would be within the >boundaries of acceptable fighting if the plane were empty, because U.S. >government workers helped to implement foreign policy. >Dyson, who is unemployed, also backed terror lord Osama bin Laden, saying >the chain of evidence against him is extremely thin. >"Osama bin Laden says he wasn't involved - that is enough for me," he said. >He said if bin Laden is captured, he should be tried in a Muslim court. >Dyson also described the United States as "hypocritical," because it >believes in freedom but interferes in the affairs of other countries by >helping to install governments against the peoples' wishes. >Dyson said he had heard many Muslims in Portland say they were prepared to >join the jihad. >"Things are going to be very dangerous, and that's not a threat from me - >that's a fact," he said.

To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (7633)	10/17/2001 3:41:25 PM
From: ThirdEye	Respond to of 27666

Israel, A Brief History:: Here is a short historical summary someone e-mailed me and allowed for public posting (I don't know the origin, but to my knowledge most of the facts are quite accurate): These were compiled by a Christian university professor. HERE'S THE BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY.... 1. Nationhood and Jerusalem Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E.., two thousand years before the rise of Islam. 2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel. 3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years. 4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years. 5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital.Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit. 6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran. 7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem. 8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem. 9. Arab and Jewish Refugees. In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. 10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms. 11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same. 12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey. 13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict; The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians.There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won. 14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons. 15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths. 16. The U.N. Record on Israel and the Arabs of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel. 17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel. 18. The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians. 19. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. 20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall....