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To: AmericanVoter who wrote (164)10/19/2001 10:02:37 AM
From: uu  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2926
 
Dear Amein,

Thank you for your comments.

However, and with all due respect, your response at best is a poor attempt in putting a positive spin on a set of dark inhuman verses and at worst is simply a poor attempt in twisting what is obvious to be not the truth.

I do not think I will go into detail as why I think this way and explain to you why your interpretation of those verses are not correct for which first I am confident you - yourself - and deep down as an educated man know the truth yourself which is totally and completely different from what you have tried to paint, and secondly I feel I simply be repeating myself and we go into a never ending circular process.

What I do not understand, however, is why so many good people - such as yourself - continue to blindly defend something that is not pure and is not "good" and is not "right". And that my friend I am baffled about beyond I can possibly express. To me it is similar to the story of Jim Jones in 1978-79 when his cult followers continued defending his evil satanic ways and ended up all commiting suicide at the end.

Yes, human spirit is indeed innocent and can easily be manipulated by evil.

Warmest Regards,



To: AmericanVoter who wrote (164)10/19/2001 12:22:26 PM
From: chuckj  Respond to of 2926
 
Koran verse marking are convoluted. Please read the surah it is entirety and not just look for verse markings. I have read several translations and the verse markings are not in absolute numbers from one translation to another. But most translations call the verse marking that tells you all to cut our heads off as 8:12. I am not sure why you keep on defending your inferior philosophy.

"8.12": When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.



To: AmericanVoter who wrote (164)10/19/2001 6:26:54 PM
From: IN_GOD_I_TRUST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 2926
 
Amein,

You seem to be educated in the ways of Islam. I would like you, if you could, to explain the innocent meanings of these verses ...

Straight from the Qu'ran:

al-Ma'idah 5:33
The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;

al-Ma'idah 5:38.9
As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

at-Taubah 9:5.8
So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

002.191
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

002.193
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

004.034
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

004.076
YUSUFALI: Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.

008.065
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.

From the Hadith (is a record of the words and deeds of Muhammad, is also viewed by Muslims as inspired. Next to the Quran, it is the most important source of Islamic Law. It's teachings are regarded as binding on all Muslims.):

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35:
The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr).

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234:
Narrated Abu Qilaba:

Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ."

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 8, Book 82, Number 796:
Narrated Anas:

A group of people from 'Ukl (tribe) came to the Prophet and they were living with the people of As-Suffa, but they became ill as the climate of Medina did not suit them, so they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with milk." The Prophet said, I see no other way for you than to use the camels of Allah's Apostle." So they went and drank the milk and urine of the camels, (as medicine) and became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and took the camels away. When a help-seeker came to Allah's Apostle, he sent some men in their pursuit, and they were captured and brought before mid day. The Prophet ordered for some iron pieces to be made red hot, and their eyes were branded with them and their hands and feet were cut off and were not cauterized. Then they were put at a place called Al-Harra, and when they asked for water to drink they were not given till they died. (Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder and fought against Allah and His Apostle.")

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 83, Number 50:
Narrated Abu Juhaifa:

I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)."

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.

We must discover why the verses say what they say and don't have their negative implications (as they seem to have)! If this is too much for one post, please do one at a time.

My wish here is to see how a true Muslim defends these verses, and says Islam is a loving belief, and respects other beliefs (ie: Judaism, Christianity, etc..) and women.

As far as I can see right now, the terrorists did what they were supposed to do, according to the Qu'ran, as I understand it. I hope you can, in fact. Otherwise, some of this scripture is terrifying!!!

Thank you in advance for your response....

God Bless,
IGIT