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To: Oeconomicus who wrote (133168)	10/19/2001 6:18:31 PM
From: craig crawford	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 164684

>> Perhaps my point is simply that while you are very good at flooding this thread with quotes from 100-3000 years ago in your endless effort to shout down opposing views, you rarely trouble yourself with understanding the context of the quote - the nature of the world at the time - or the overall views of the person quoted and frequently hijack the entire point of what was being said 100-3000 years ago to manufacture a meaning that you think will support your views. << i simply posted a quote by teddy roosevelt, who was not a free trader. i never said he wasn't an imperialist or a war-monger. that was a mistake on his part. >> You quoted TR, suggesting that those 40 years of which he spoke represent a golden age of prosperity, which prosperity you conclude was somehow the result of protectionism and that we should return to both << fair enough. >> At the time TR noted the prosperity of the prior 40 years, it WAS the most prosperous in our history. << fair enough. >> The same could be said at any time in US history << you have to take into account the distribution of wealth and standards of living. no one denies that our economy (until recently) seems quite prosperous and we seem like quite a wealthy nation as whole. but that doesn't tell the whole story. the top 1% holds approximately 40% of the wealth, double what it was a few generations ago. the top 10% holds nearly 3/4 of the wealth. so is free trade really all that prosperous for america as a whole, or is it mostly beneficial to the elites? >> which prosperity you conclude was somehow the result of protectionism << obviously that is only one facet, not the only one. for instance i advocate protectionism but i also advocate abolishing the IRS and income taxes. so you can't look at it in a vacuum. >> It is not logical to conclude from this, however, that high tariffs caused the prosperity << you're right, you cannot look at tariffs in isolation and attribute prosperity to them alone. but you can make the case that we were prosperous even as protectionists (i would argue more prosperous). of course i believe there are more than economic benefits to protectionism, so if we can prosper with protectionism, i wholeheartedly prefer that to the free trade "prosperity" mirage of today. give it another 10 years and i won't even have to make my case. you will see the destructive effects of globalism and "free" trade first hand. we are starting to witness the decline of this nation. the stock market crash and 9/11 was just the beginning of the unraveling. >> By this logic, the tax hikes of the early '90s caused the unprecedented prosperity of this country through the remainder of the decade and 2000. Post hoc fallacy - B follows A, therefore A caused B. << like i said, i don't attribute all of america's prosperity to protectionism alone. it is only one piece of the puzzle. staying out of foreign wars is another superb way to maintain prosperity! obviously i have been advocating this as well. >> PS: TR hardly considered himself an imperialist as you say he was. He simply believed that all people of the world (Puerto Rico, Cuba and the Philippines in particular) deserved to live as we did, in liberty, and he felt it was America's duty to fight for what is right. At least, that's what he said. << well that's bs. TR believed that anglo saxons deserved those things and anyone who differed better get out of our way. teddy roosevelt had many good points to him but his war mongering and imperialism were shortcomings.