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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: chalu2 who wrote (7417)10/20/2001 8:06:15 PM
From: Machaon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 23908
 
<< Christian persecution by Muslims is only gaining strength... >>

And..... we are supposed to be tolerant of our Muslims friends. Screw them!

All I see in Arab nations is anti-American marches. Where are all the marches in support of America?

We need to develop a domestic policy that is not dependent upon oil, especially Arab oil. Why do we tolerate their anti-Christian policies? Let them put their 10,000 years of culture to use without oil revenues. They'd all be shoveling camel dung for a living.

I can just see it, the Saudi Arabia College of Camel Dung. <g>



To: chalu2 who wrote (7417)10/21/2001 1:55:58 AM
From: BubbaFred  Respond to of 23908
 
Just to show the idiots (mass herd mentality, and lemmings) by only 10,000 of the 190 Millions. Not enough to fill a stadium, but they are SUPER LOUD!

These are typically from the anti establishment segment of the society and they need a way to express their dissatisfaction. They are hoodlums and if they have the opportunity, they will rob and loot and kill. It has been done many times before under different circumstances and "excuses". The roots is the huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots, and the ill feelings that have caused.

However, it is NOT TYPICAL of the overall general psyche of the people. They were first Hindus and then Buddhists, before Islam came. Islam took over because it has special meaning and much more attractive to the impoverished and the poor. Islam then become the dominant religion in Indonesia. As noted in the article below, the typical brand of Islam in Indonesia is extremely moderate. The roots of strife that took place was not caused by religion, but incited by politics (territorial fightings) and by desire to take a piece of the commerce of businesses. As always and happened over and over again, after riots, lootings, robberies, killings, etc, the economy and commerce went downhill. Hoodlums are destructive to socioeconomy, and do not know how to nurture it. These idiots never learned and there are always hoodlums in every generations.

The military and police main function is to maintain order, but is not equally available everywhere. In the wealthier neighborhoods, they receive stipends from members of the communities in exchange for protection. Such communities tend to be immune from disturbances. Those stipends are the main source of income and livelihood for the military police. In less affluent middle class neighborhoods, the police protection can be a bit lax. In areas where there is political turmoil, such as in East Timor, then all bets are off because one doesn't know which police officer belong to which political party that has the upper hand.

At the present time, the government is walking on a tight rope and has to take the middle of the road stance to appease the highly emotional disturbance. This just shows how difficult to govern such an outrageously large population. It also shows that the government and its military police do not have adequate control.

By the way, in the US, the original KKK were the Protestants who used to hunt down the Catholics. That was before they found and switched to hunting down the Blacks. It turned from differences of Christian churches to racial differences. That was done by the dominant part of the society who wanted to prevent the Catholic and later the blacks from becoming equal member of the society. One last reminder is the prosecution of the Jews. Do you realize that many European Christians willingly helped and assisted the Nazis with hunting down the Jews and getting them to the concentration camps. That's correct! Just recall that the Nazis never had enough military force manpower to do all the rounding up without assistance from the local police and people. One favorite joke was: "That's a nice new lamp. Is the shade made of skin?"

So, go figure! Is it really war of Gods? or society's war against terrorists and hoodlums?, or socioeconomic strives that use religions as the motivating factor? Can you tell the differences between what's happening in Afghanistan, in the Middle East, and in Indonesia? I can. By the way, Afghanistan is in Central Asia, not Middle East. I have several old Afghan and Pakistani acquaintances and although they are Moslems, they are some of the finest and most trustworthy people I have come across. I have known Moslems who are deceitful also. Overall, I have been cheated by Christians more often than by people of other religions. Two reasons: 1. I live in the US, a predominantly "Christian" society and found most of them are Christian by birth, not by practice; and 2. I have limited associations and acquaintances who are Moslems, Hindus, or Buddhists.

Here is the news article:

Indonesia Muslims Turn Out in Force Against U.S. Raids
By Achmad Sukarsono

dailynews.yahoo.com

JAKARTA (Reuters) - More than 10,000 Muslims, some singing ''our blood is boiling,'' marched through the Indonesian capital of Jakarta on Friday in the country's biggest protest to date against the U.S.-led strikes on Afghanistan (news - web sites).

But there was none of the violence that has marred previous rallies in the world's largest Muslim nation and the rally broke up peacefully by later afternoon.

The protesters, including hundreds of veiled women in white, marched from just outside the main mosque, past the U.S. embassy and then down the main thoroughfare before stopping at the city's central roundabout, which is also outside the British embassy.

``We are angry, our blood is boiling. Until the end of time, we will defend all Muslims,'' thousands sang together, led by protest organizers using loudspeakers.

Some waved Palestinian and Afghan flags, others carried banners attacking President Bush (news - web sites) and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) over the Afghan assaults.

``Bush and Blair, you are so cruel, you have started a crusade,'' said one banner.

Security was generally low-key, but hundreds of police, troops and water cannon guarded the U.S. and British embassies or were on standby nearby. Traffic continued to flow slowly as police erected signs reading ``sorry, there is a demo.''

Earlier, Vice President Hamzah Haz who heads the country's largest Muslim party, appealed for an end to the protests, warning they could damage the impoverished country.

``We're facing an extraordinary dilemma. If we make a wrong step we can fall into a ravine... therefore I'm asking our Muslim people to stop demonstrating,'' he said in a speech while opening a mosque. ``I'm afraid... if our actions do not express that Islam is grace from Allah, the name of Islam will be destroyed.''

Indonesia has been hit by growing anti-U.S. sentiment, including calls for a holy war from some small, hardline groups, since U.S.-led strikes on Afghanistan began on October 7 over the September 11 suicide hijack attacks on New York and Washington.

TREADING FINE LINE

The battered country and its secular president, Megawati Sukarnoputri, are trying to tread a delicate line between supporting a key ally and appeasing Muslim groups.

The capital has been relatively peaceful for most of this week after a violent clash between security forces and protesters on Monday and a police crackdown on radical Muslim leaders.

Worshippers at midday prayers on Islam's holiest day of the week were urged to show restraint, but also to be angry at the United States and its actions.

``We should not be provoked by anger,'' Muslim cleric Irfan Zidni told worshippers at the main Istiqlal mosque, one of the world's biggest.

``We should be angry at the inhumane actions of the United States and its allies, but we have to be wise in helping our brothers,'' he said.

``Let's help them now with prayers so that our brothers in Afghanistan can cope with the attacks from the enemies.''

INFIDELS

``Muslims will be infidels if they befriend people who expel fellow Muslims like the United States is expelling the Afghans.''

Afghanistan's ruling Taliban, targeted by a U.S.-led military campaign for sheltering Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) and his al Qaeda network, have imposed their own strict interpretation of Islam on their country.

Washington accuses bin Laden of masterminding the September 11 attacks, which killed more than 5,000 people.

Vice President Haz, who has said the attacks on the United States should help cleanse Washington of its sins, appealed to Muslims to show solidarity with Afghanistan through charity and prayers, not protest.

``If we continue demonstrating, our country will become a poorer country,'' he warned. ``Many foreigners have left the country and the impact has been felt by our hotel industry and business community.''

About 90 percent of Indonesia's 210 million people are Muslim. Islam in Indonesia is generally moderate and peaceful.