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Strategies & Market Trends : Zeev's Turnips - No Politics -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Zeev Hed who wrote (1039)10/21/2001 11:16:35 AM
From: Short A. Few  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 99280
 
"exogenous factors" English challenged indeed
hope you can keep the monotonics from the not
monotonics clear ;-)



To: Zeev Hed who wrote (1039)10/21/2001 11:26:54 AM
From: GREENLAW4-7  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 99280
 
Zeev, I try hard to be optimistic but I cannot when we have an economic, and political CRISIS at hand. How can you back the expectation of a New Bull market w/ out addressing the problems in the current Secular Bear?

The differences from 82, and 91,92, and 95 to today are like night and day. I believe we are only beginning to enter the Secular Dow Bear market and this should take us now well into 2003 before it see's some stabilization.

We have contracting earnings, loss of jobs, bankruptcy at all time high, and a stock market that is tarding at a P/E of historical heights and continued lowered earnings. In this enviroment how can you have anything but a Bear? Perhaps a Counter Trend rally that may take us to 1850, and 9700 in DOW, but how can it sustain the pull of Earnings Depression and short fall? It simply cannot, and will unfortunately take many naive investors w/ it!

I said it back in August 2000, that 1500 was in the cards for the COMP and I now suspect sub 1200 is in the cards. The analogy that was made back then was to Japans Bubble and where it was then. Yes, we have very different banking here but the big picture is still the same, OVEREXCESS from thr 18 year bull in the last 4 years will make the current Bear uglier then many on wall street care to admit!

Don't take this post the wrong way, I respect your views and opinion. This is from a trader that loves to ride the CTR's as much as the next person, but simply getting tired of everyone looking for a Bull when we are knee deep in bear excrement!

I would love to here some discussion regarding how great the earnings were this week, because all I read in those reports were continued contraction, and continued higher losses. I have not read one report that would tell me the stock was not GROSSLY OVERVALUED!



To: Zeev Hed who wrote (1039)10/21/2001 11:30:40 AM
From: GREENLAW4-7  Respond to of 99280
 
Stocks still at 'Black Monday' highs
Market among history's richest, manager says
By Thom Calandra, CBS MarketWatch
Last Update: 8:20 PM ET Oct. 19, 2001

NEW YORK (CBS.MW) - Price-earnings measures that show U.S. stocks as historically cheap are misleading and probably dangerous, says fund manager Clifford Asness at AQR Capital Management in New York City.

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Asness, a former Goldman Sachs Group managing director and quantitative analyst, is known on Wall Street for his brainy models that apply to global equity, fixed income and currency markets. "Give him an inch and he measures it," hard-nosed chief strategist Barton Biggs at Morgan Stanley said about Asness this week.

"Stock market pundits should have their mouth washed out with soap if they currently call stocks historically undervalued as many do today," says Asness, a regular contributor to financial publications, including the Journal of Portfolio Management and Financial Analysts Journal. AQR Capital Management, with a team of former Goldman Sachs executives, manages about $1.3 billion.

His analysis, which uses data going back to the 19th century, is sure to challenge buy-on-the-dip investors who have rallied the stock market this month. Asness, in his latest research, also demonstrates how Wall Street's methods for pronouncing a security as "cheap" or earnings growth as "strong" are self-serving nonsense.

In his latest, yet unpublished, paper, Asness charts price-earnings measures using one-year trailing earnings, not the illusory forward earnings that many on Wall Street use to declare a company's equity as undervalued. "Forecasted earnings are highly subjective numbers that Wall Street is famous for being overly optimistic about," he says.

P/Es, Asness says about the price-earnings ratios that are used to evaluate the price of a company's shares, "are above any time in history prior to the 1998-2000 bubble, including the peak before 1929's crash." His research puts price-earnings for the benchmark S&P 500 at 26 for the 12 months ended Sept. 30. "In other words, excluding the 1999-2000 bubble, we are currently in the 100th percentile. Counting the bubble, only 2 percent of the time since 1881 have market P/Es been higher than today's values. Cheap? I think not," he says.

Asness examines the price-earnings phenomenon several ways. In one analysis, he uses a 10-year average of so-called real earnings, or earnings adjusted for inflation. Such a chart presumably smoothes out the one-year peaks and valleys of corporate earnings. His conclusion?

"On this scale we're now a tad cheaper than before Black Monday in 1929, but I don't think that's the tag line Abby Cohen and Ed Kerschner want to use to tout stocks," he says, referring to two of the most bullish Wall Street strategists. "Can you imagine yelling, 'Buy, buy, we're slightly cheaper than right before the crash of '29.' Nope, excluding the 1998-2000 bubble, and the period right before October of 1929, we still have the most expensive stock market in recorded history."

Go out and hunt some of your own

About half of AQR Capital's assets under management are in a market-neutral hedge fund. The rest is in a mix of lower volatility hedge funds and traditional, beat-the-benchmark portfolios.

Besides the recognition Asness has received for his Goldman Sachs (GS: news, chart, profile) work on mortgage-backed securities and quantitative models for the stock and bond markets, the fund manager is known for a sense of humor that is largely absent on Wall Street.

Not long ago, at the height of the market bubble 19 months ago, he noted, "If I hear one more person refer to buying a 200 P/E stock, that is up 200 percent in the last year but is down 5 percent from its closing high two days ago, as 'bargain hunting,' I might have to start doing some hunting of my own."

These days, Asness takes a jab at Wall Street strategists, saying "a fair amount are simple shills for the bubble, who honestly should introduce themselves by saying 'Hi, I'm not a strategist, but I play one on CNBC.' ''

Asness is at his best when dissecting the arguments employed by Wall Street's bulls, mainly the banks and brokerages that are structured to sell securities to the American public in good times and bad. Among them:

The stock market usually recovers six months before an economic recovery. Asness says in true recessions, price-earnings measures are more likely to fall below 10, "not to record highs like today."
Don't fight the Fed. "If you find any strategist saying this, who also was telling you in late 1999 or early 2000 that interest rate increases don't matter to tech stocks, first laugh at them, then short something they recommend," he says.
The market is only falling because of Anthrax scares . . . "These pundits might be right about the catalyst for any specific day's movement, but the conscious effort to blame short-term nonsense and intentionally ignore reality is real."
Asness calls the October rally a "wild rush back into speculative nonsense" and criticizes both individuals and mutual fund managers for trying to pick the stock market's bottom.

"You can't have a Krispy Kreme (KKD: news, chart, profile) selling at a P/E over 100, an EBay (EBAY: news, chart, profile) still selling for a P/E of 150 and a $15 billion market cap, without realizing that investors have not learned much about investing, despite recent experience," he notes. (AQR Capital, Asness points out, is both long and short stocks of all types.)

"Sure, Krispy Kreme and EBay make actual money and run actual businesses, as opposed to the dot-coms, but so does Cisco," he says about Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Internet auctioneer EBay and networker Cisco Systems (CSCO: news, chart, profile). "Cisco was a joke at a P/E of 140, as it was trading for in early 2000, and investors are still telling the same joke, only some of the punch lines have switched."

The portfolio manager compares the euphoria in Internet chat rooms about Krispy Kreme, a North Carolina company whose shares sell for 104 times earnings, as similar to the raves for Internet bookseller Amazon.com (AMZN: news, chart, profile) two years ago.

Asness notes that real earnings growth for Standard & Poor's 500 companies - that's earnings minus inflation -- has averaged just 1.6 percent a year for more than a century. If the U.S. economy grows 2 percent next year and inflation runs a 2 percent yearly pace, the result for investors won't be pretty. But of course, the Wall Street strategists will say no such thing.

This fund manager and author should be applauded for his research, which is available in full at www.AQRCapital.com. The likelihood, though, is that many Americans, enjoying this month's shelter from the fiscal damage they have suffered in the past 19 months, will ignore Asness and his analysis.

That's all the more pity for Wall Street and its Main Street lemmings.

Thom Calandra is Editor-in-Chief of CBS MarketWatch.

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Copyright 2001 CBS MarketWatch.com, Inc.



To: Zeev Hed who wrote (1039)10/21/2001 1:50:08 PM
From: Joan Osland Graffius  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 99280
 
Zeev, >> I actually think it is the first leg in a new bull market

You are saying that the market will continue to price stock (paper) assets above historic norms. One question, do you define the bear market bounce in Japan from around 13,0000 to 20,000 a new leg of a bull market? If you do then maybe we could get a bull market if we can cover up the consumer and corporate debt problem. IMO, one day this issue must be faced and it will be painful.

Joan



To: Zeev Hed who wrote (1039)10/21/2001 1:52:19 PM
From: Rich1  Respond to of 99280
 
Cycle guy says Monday Tuesday maybe up but lows coming the end of week..25/26/29..
Also says he cant find a V bottom recovery in recent history so this V bottom doesnt bode well..