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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (7089)	10/23/2001 4:28:22 PM
From: Michael Watkins	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Okay, so now I'm a Moslem, who is it I'm okay to kill? Which one of the over 1 BILLION followers of Islam are you referring to? The pacifist down the street? The gardener? The professor of medicine at your local teaching hospital? Just substitute "Christian" for the word Muslim in your post and you'll see what I mean. A better choice would be "Islamic fundamentalist extremist terrorist" or something like that. Granted its nice to be able to boil a concept down to a single word but I can't think of one, other than Terrorist. Using Terrorist instead of Moslem might better get the point across, unless you happen to believe that all 1 BILLLION muslims are terrorists.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (7089)	10/23/2001 5:53:15 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

MQ, obviously anyone who tries to steal rightfully proprietary properties carried on camels, traded all over the world. (insideer Qcom+Nokia joke) Here in finn+land we have some good reference works on reindeer legal issues and farmer issues, you might have some of maoris and other immigrants?? Free global trading is in every corner and sentence of islam, just like rights to water if in the desert (interesting contrast with SEC rules, except at this moment of crises, no shorters need apply for patriotic honor, like spilling water in the desert) Sheep should also be a common issue, maybe even regular cattle and cowboys. There is a little muslim in all of us, no?? Ilmarinen PS Minor explanations, much of islam has to do with free trade, on top of the mercy of the new testament, and the "eye for an eye and soon we willall be happily blind" of the old testament. As reindeer cannot survive in the same place for more than some months, the legal system is different than for stationary farmers, kind of a legal system applied for free roaming (another QCOM-Nokia joke, SIM cards are important) Upholding global free trade is important both for fun+damentalist islamists and americans, fair price for a fair product, as well as license payments (no??) Without going too deep into the cattle and sheep cultures, too many irresistable issues.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (7089)	10/23/2001 11:18:36 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Maurice Winn; The quote you guys are getting worked up over is being taken out of context. The context is what the correct way to make war with unbelievers is. I wonder if that's why it's not being quoted with the verse number, to make it more difficult to find. Anyway, here's the context, read it whatever way you like, but I've bolded the peaceful parts, (LOL!!!) ... [9:4] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous. [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. [9:6] If one of the idol worshipers sought safe passage with you, you shall grant him safe passage, so that he can hear the word of GOD, then send him back to his place of security. That is because they are people who do not know. [9:7] How can the idol worshipers demand any pledge from GOD and from His messenger? Exempted are those who have signed a peace treaty with you at the Sacred Masjid. If they honor and uphold such a treaty, you shall uphold it as well. GOD loves the righteous. [9:8] How can they (demand a pledge) when they never observed any rights of kinship between you and them, nor any covenant, if they ever had a chance to prevail. They pacified you with lip service, while their hearts were in opposition, and most of them are wicked. [9:9] They traded away GOD's revelations for a cheap price. Consequently, they repulsed the people from His path. Miserable indeed is what they did! [9:10] They never observe any rights of kinship towards any believer, nor do they uphold their covenants; these are the real transgressors. [9:11] If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), then they are your brethren in religion. We thus explain the revelations for people who know. [9:12] If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism - you are no longer bound by your covenant with them - that they may refrain. [9:13] Would you not fight people who violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear, if you are believers. [9:14] You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers. [9:15] He will also remove the rage from the believers' hearts. GOD redeems whomever He wills. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise. ... submission.org -- Carl