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To: TrueScouse who wrote (78810)	10/24/2001 7:05:28 AM
From: E. Charters	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116752

Dear Tyrant: Why is it intellectual garbage for myself to quote numbers and not for you to say something else? If you have a difference concept and want to aver that then do so and dissent. Quote any proof or reason you want to. But as I recall there is an order of magnitude dispute that has been around since 1945. The very first researcher to put a figure on it was a Frenchman named Pressac at 630.000. Since then with somwhat absent justification there has been wildly disagreeing figures quoted and quoted often. If I said to you a Chrysler Suburban had a mass of 3 tons, later said it weighed 9 tons and still later said it was 12 tons and not a pound less or were I to say different would make me a pariah, I think you would have a right to think that the exanding numbers made what I said suspect. It is not me that has made a great deal out of the numbers. Those saying it who are telling me that it is a big deal very year on TV and every available media are the ones saying the figures are important. So do why exactly do Rwanda, Bangladesh, Turkey, Greece, Russia Tanzania, Armenia and Uganda not rate a minute on TV but the Jews rate TV specials at regular intervals? Really, the second world war was no the only war in history and the Jews were not the only massacre. But hey, if one million Armenians were killed, the Jews have to be more important so its camps and 6 million. Now they are the boss of suffering. Arguing with their numbers is a jail term. Saying only 500,000 Armenians were massacred is unimportant. Never in all the Holocaust literature have I seen a breakdown, a list, a statistic published by a government, a quote or a study with figures or intelligent projection. All I have seen is the province of propaganda. Somebody is suppposed to have overheard a guard say that they were celebrating the one millionth prisoner delivered to Treblinka, and that was "long" before the closure so, A. all of them were killed, B. all were Jews and C. it HAS to be true. D. and of course if you multiply by all the camps and all the possibilities, figure conjuration HAS to be enormous. All you have todo to get the "correct"figure that will not merit you a jail term is to use a Jewish or liberal calculator. It has no buttons,or scalar operations, just turn it on, say "massacre" and it will display a warm and fuzzy approximation of the magnitude that will cause the guilt feeling necessary to fund your cause. I am not the one twisting semantics or statistics. I am saying that incredible things are not credible and giving reasons. It is absolute hogwash tosay that 6 million people were killed when dozens of researchers with no axe to grind have averred that in all honesty there wer not anywhere near 6 million Jews in all of Europe. If you believe there were, the produce the proof, the sources, the statistics. Estimate it based on anything but please, deal with reality, numbers ... something .. just don't wave a wand and say "it has to be because, hey, little girls got killed by evil beasts and to disagree with anything people say who are crying about that is evil." Give us a racial population census for France, Germany, Poland and Holland. They certainly did exist. In minute detail they existed. Catherine the great of Russia counted the Jews in Russia, -- every one ... way back in the 1800's. So people knew the figures. Most of the Jews went to labour camps. Not death camps. There were 6 "death camps" in Poland the only country that had these camps. I have stated repeatedly that I am not minimizing the crime of murder. (I believe I know how and why the Germans came to make their fundamental and important errors. The Israelis and many civilizations do not know it appears. The all important "psychological" answer as to how you prevent, by social or government organization, the deprivation of human rights is not often addressed. In order to protect rights or "security", it is NOT necessary that you must take certain ones away. (Occam's razor might deal with that in a sense) I say that this act of inhibition lets the thin edge of the wedge of power abuse in the door. What ran amok in Nazi germany was power unchecked. This is the evil. No number of statutes that attack the so called simulacrum of the ideals implemented by an evil government will prevent such governments from arising. It does not keep it out. Mistaken thinking is that it is anarchy and some kind of foment and promotion of bad opinion thus leads to the seizure of abusive power. The hell-in-the-handbasket theorists believe that a power vacuum leads to the criminal exploitation of that weakness and the implementation a kind of slavery. I would compare such theories to the kind of belief evinced by those who think that violent comic books lead to crime, that pornography promotes violence against or disresepct of women. (Howzatt?) The connection is fuzzier than a teddy bear. I am not minimizing. 50 years of media assault on the Germans is maximizing. Saying it may be that the figures are not correct and it is a tad over the top in a post or two is not minimizing. The idea that all who doubt propaganda are promoting another brand of propaganda is artful propaganda in itself. Who here has the propaganda license? Who has the right to promote their opinions? Be careful in taking the moral high ground above all comers. It means you have to be always right and above reproach. Not so tough for one so righteous and sanctified as yourself and evidently justified in your opinion.. of that I have no fear. Will the morally safe and smugly accepting of all the ideas of the day armour you against all evil? Will it keep Genghis Khan from your border, terrorists from your sky? I suppose that the smell of burning anti-holocaust books will make the tyrants flee in stark terror. But wait a minute, look in the mirror, do you see it? notice the faint trace of a fu-Manchu mustache? the slanted eyes, the ghost of a recurve bow and quiver, the curved sword? Its your reflection ... the spirit of the Genghis Khan, Hitler, Attila, they have returned to inhabit you. They commend you. "Keep up the scorn of others' right to speak, their very existence threatens you.. soon you will be one of us." EC<:-}

To: TrueScouse who wrote (78810)	10/24/2001 8:04:26 AM
From: long-gone	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116752

"I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity under the name of funding is but swindling futurity on a large scale." — Thomas Jefferson

To: TrueScouse who wrote (78810)	10/24/2001 10:14:56 AM
From: Richnorth	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116752

Hi Howy, Please to make your acquaintance! All I wrote was that Charters' opinion appeared credible to me when logistics was being considered. The accounts I heard every time was that 6 millions were cremated. But now, in the light of further revelations, it would appear that a smaller number actually perished in the crematoriums. So, it would now APPEAR!!! that the cremation of 6 million people was an exaggeration. IF!!! that be the case, I leave it to your judgement as to the motivation for it. Why did the Germans cremate the dead bodies? Some German and Hungarian friends of mine opined that it was vital to maintain hygienic conditions. So, if indeed the 6 million people were killed by Xyklon B and cremated, it certainly appears to me, anyway, it was logistically impossible to do it in the relatively short time that it was reported to have occurred. It seems to me my readers thought I was heartless to have ever doubted the veracity of that overly publicized figure.