Dear Carl,
I was not going to respond to you for which I believe you are simply uneducated and naive at best for not even wanting to do a little bit of study of the very societies you are accusing of being bigots. A friend of mine (and in fact a Persian non-practicing Muslim) who is not a member of SI (who does not wish to pay the membership fee to become a member so he could post!) read your post and asked me to please respond to it. So here I am again trying to express something that I am sure you will not understand now or ever till such time that you do a little bit of study in understanding the world around you.
Lets start from the top. You state:
> don't have "high regard" for the teachings of the Koran, in fact I think it's silly.
Since you looked up the word Satanic in the dictionary, why dont you look up the word silly also. Then we take a simple case out of hundreds under the guidance of Koran, and Islamic framework, and tell me if that applies to a case where a Muslim man can potentially beat the hell out of his wife as allowed in Koran in the name of Koran, God and Islam? If that is your idea of silliness, then I guess O.J Simpson is really just a silly man and not a murderer. :)
You state:
> What I have low regard for is those who would attempt to convince the United States that Islam is "satanic".
No one is trying to convince you or anyone of anything. As I expressed to you what I meant by Satanic. To me - and this is my own interpretation and no one else's - Satanic is when a faith, or a religion provides a moral framework for some to harm others in the most inhuman illogical way. Islam is therefore because of providing such a framework is "satanic" in my view. Now you can go and rationalize however you want that it is not so, but this is how I feel and how I define satanic. And as I expressed your definition of satanic may in fact be totally different than mine as beauty (or ugliness) is in the eyes of the beholder.
No one is trying to convince the U.S that Islam is satanic, instead what the U.S is being convinced of is to "understand" and to "study" Islam for what it is. The evil nature of the religion will become known in the process based on the harsh framework it provides that does not go well with 21st century civilization. In order to win the war on terrorism, we must understand the terrorist's mind set and psyhcic. In this case the terrorism feeds on the framework that is provided by Islam.
You stated what you have low regard for, let me tell you what I have low regard for also. I do not appreciate people who are bigots and yet disguise themselves under Idealistic American values and do not want to accept the harsh realities of the world that differs from their own.
With regard to wife beating, harsh punishment, etc. You state:
> All these things are in various parts of the Old Testament, which includes worse. Go to any atheist site and look it up, what the heck, here's some Numbers 31, King James Version...
The key word here is the old testament. Are you trying to justify that just because these evil teachings appear in some other faith (old testament in this case) it is OK for Koran to include them also? It is sort of like justifying What Saddam Hossein has done to its people, simply because there was a nut case in the 1930's-40's by the name of Adolph Hitler!
You state:
> I accept you as an American citizen.
Gee.. thanks! And I too accept you as an American citizen also! Just the very notion of you stating the above statement goes to show your arrogance, and bigotry - and for that I am so sorry to have come to even discuss matters with you.
You state:
> What do you think my Irish ancestors thought about the English when they came over? And the Norwegians, do you think they had nice things to say about the Swedes? ... Most of the immigrants that come over here are bigoted as hell, but eventually they die and their bigotry dies with them.
Oh Really?! Because apparently you may not be bigot against the English anymore and that idiotic hatred has died in you. However you seem to have this self-righteous arrogance which is the basis of all bigotries as indicated by your bigotry against me and my national origin! Just read your own post back to me Please to understand your own bigotry!
You state:
> This means that the passions and prejudices you brought with you from Iran will not pass on for very many generations.
I agree with you on this. Not because that the passions and prejudices not being passed to the future generations, but simply because there are no prejudices to begin with! You hear and read what you want to believe, not what they are. You are totally confused now as I believe you think I am passionate and prejudice because I brought up the facts as what happened to Persia by the Arabs and their brutal enforcement of Islam upon Iran 1500 years ago and to this date. I am just stating the facts, and you instead of trying to learn something from it, automatically dismiss it as a prejudice statement!
I guess Jews then in your eyes are also a bunch of passionate, prejudice bigots when they talk about Hitler and Nazis.
Why dont you instead of writing long sensational "Hollywood type" speeches, spend some time and do a little bit of study on the Persian history (or that entire Middle Easte area) as I suggested, and really find out where Islam came from, and how it was originated, who created it, and above all why! It will do you a lot of good.
You state:
> Look carefully at your children. When you talk about the old country and about Islam being satanic do you notice that their eyes tend to roll a bit? If you don't see it, then look more carefully.
I have a 3 year old daughter, and I do not believe she understands these matters very well yet. But I guarantee you, when she is old enough and if she is educated enough to have a total open mind about the realities of the world, she would do her own study and instead of dismissing a lot of things as you seem to be doing with your mind and eyes closed, she would try to understand them instead.
you state:
> This is the power of the tolerance that you call "idealistic". Looks pretty practical to me. The historical record is clear, tolerance kicks bigotry's ass. We are rich (and powerful) partly because of our tolerant nature. Intolerance is what weak (and poor or illiterate) countries do.
You remind me of John Blushi in the movie Animal House! There is a part that he, and his fraternity brothers have all been kicked out of the school and they all are depressed sitting on the floor not knowing what to do. Then he stands up and gives a beautiful speech saying ... this is not over till we say it is over. and a bunch of other idealistic phrases to hype and cheer up his fraternity brothers Well everyone just looked at each other as if Wrong speech, wrong time, to the wrong people - what is wrong with this guy!
I really fail to see what you are trying to tell me! I really do. What you are doing is to prove more and more of your arrogance and lack of understanding of the realities of the world, and ignorance for what goes on in this world outside of even your own very neighborhood (let alone outside of the state you live in, or outside of the U.S)! You totally have proven to lack the very basic understanding that is required to be a citizen of the world at large, and not just the citizen of the neighborhood and blocks where your house is located!
Of course America is about freedom, and the home for all people of all color, relgions, cults, sexes, national origin, etc. That is what makes this country so great and so powerful. It is based on the needs of the many outweighing the needs of one, and the needs of one outweighing the needs of many. Everyone has equal opportunity in life to pursue happiness. You do not need to tell me that for which I am a live example of what this pure nobel ideology has done for me in life in this great country. Therefore I really fail to see why you keep brining this up?!
You state:
> What you're trying to do is to demonize the Moslems.
NO! What I am trying to do is to demonize the framework under which a vast majority of people - calling themselves Muslims - (or as in Farsi MoSalman) in Islamic countries (such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Nigeria, and the rest) are operating which gives them the self-righteousness and the arrogance to harm others (and themselves) in the most inhuman manner.
With all your beautiful Hollywood type speeches, I find it rather interesting that you failed to respond to my statements with regard to you dismissing anyone - or anything - that points out the short comings of Islam and characterize them as a conspiracy against you and your total (NOT) "objective non-biased views" (!!!!) of Islam!! I only pointed out a few, but I am sure there are hundreds out there who continue to point out the facts about Islam.
But with the very few that I provided You basically dismissed Microsoft/NBC, PBS, Catholics, and Hindus - all as conspirators of creating propaganda against Islam! I guess they all are Un-American and all trying to demonize Muslims!! Shame on them. Shame on them for exposing the truth about Islam!
You state:
> But this war is not comparable to WW2. In WW2 we had to fight two powerful, industrialized advanced nations. Now our power (military, economic and political) is almost absolute. This is not a time for the propaganda of the weak, this is a time for the idealism of the magnanimous victor. .... The enemy is weak, not strong.
John Blushi (God bless his soul) at his best in the movie Animal House! Wrong speech, wrong time!
Your enemy this time is more dangerous than the Nazis. And this war is more dangerous than WWII, or WWI. I sure hope this administration does not have the same arrogance and ignorance as you seem to have, because by the most dangerous thing that can happen now in this war against terrorism is to underestimate the enemy. The enemy is more powerful than you think for which it is evil feeding on manipulation of human spirit in the name of God. And this evil potentially has 1.2 billion people to carry out its wishes.
Believe me Human spirit is innocent and can easily be manipulated.
Trust me, do a little study, and if you find that to be time consuming and tedious, then watch that MSNBC documentary called The mind of a suicide bomber, or the PBS documentary on Jihad and you may come to understand how powerful this enemy is and can be.
Regards,
- Addi
P.S - No need to respond for which I do not believe I can - or even have the desire - to argue with you anymore! But read my previous post to you again and think about and try to have a bit of more open mind about matters :)
Message 16548870 |
