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To: Victor Lazlo who wrote (133616)	10/25/2001 10:33:37 PM
From: craig crawford	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 164684

>> If it were up to you, we would shrink away from any hint of defending our rare, precious, and fragile freedoms. << it's time to put up or shut up. you still haven't told me how hitler threatened the liberty and freedoms of americans, not the french or british. if you want to argue that we had an obligation to stand for the freedom of french and british people we can go down that path. but you and everyone else on this thread have still failed to provide any evidence that hitler or the japanese were a threat to our liberty or freedoms. >> If you had your way, the US would still be a colony of England << whatever gave you that idea. we broke away from an overreaching british empire--only to come full circle and turn into one ourselves! i want us to go back to the principles this country was founded on--not the principles that brought down every other empire including the british. >> You are very small-minded. This 'empire' as you call it, was built on big, huge dreams, dreams you would never dare to imagine. Dreams and hopes I cannot believe really took solid shape. Dreams our European ancestors could not fathom. And you take it all for granted. << everyone is allowed their insults and rhetoric. even i engage in it. but i also back up my positions with facts and arguments. now it is time for you to do the same. >> Open your eyes, Craig. get with it. Appreciate it. Revel in it. There is nowhere else like America. Nowhere. Let's stand up for it. Let's defend it. << more rhetoric and no substance. i don't mind a little rhetoric if you can make a valid case for your positions. it's time for you to put up or shut up.

To: Victor Lazlo who wrote (133616)	10/25/2001 11:24:50 PM
From: Oeconomicus	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 164684

Good post, Victor. BTW, you aren't the only one who see's American democracy as a rare treasure: Yet as Bahrain gets accustomed to greater civil liberties, even some of the most virulent critics of the U.S. now openly speak about their desire to emulate the underpinnings of its society. Says Mr. al-Nuaimi, the former Marxist guerrilla, who was jailed by Syria in 1990 because of his opposition to U.S. involvement in the Gulf War: "Lots of people criticize America, but no one really can criticize American democracy, because it is the best." WSJ, 10/25/01, p.A10