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Technology Stocks : Advanced Micro Devices - Moderated (AMD) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jcholewa who wrote (60480)	10/26/2001 2:02:38 PM
From: Jim McMannis	Respond to of 275872

RE:"Although Jim has lost his writing skills in the last hour, his point is a good one." I never had any. But I do know that figures don't lie, only liars figure. Arguing about the benches is really not necessary because Intel came right out and said, before the P4 even came out, that they were going to revamp the benchmark suite to suit it. Of course we can't catch Intel in a lie because the benches they use portray true results. Even Sysmark2001 before the patch...they didn't lie about the results...they were just rigged. Jim

To: jcholewa who wrote (60480)	10/26/2001 2:12:27 PM
From: wanna_bmw	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 275872

JC, Re: "Yeah, P4 gets faster when you optimize for it. But is it fair if this benchmark is optimized for the P4 but not really optimized for the Celeron? I mean, for example, do these optimizations really reflect optimizations in the corresponding real world code? Do most people run all their apps at once (as I do), or would it really be more fair to benchmark one intensive app at a time, which may very well make the Celeron look better (running all those apps at once would be really friendly to a faster cpu bus, and that's a P4 advantage)?" The thing that you're missing is that today's applications and usage models are quickly becoming obsolete. Just think about the number of tasks that Windows is set up to do in the background, yet most people disable them because they're too slow. Virus checking, disk defragmenting, security checks, archiving... these can all be running on the background to enhance the user's platform stability, security, and experience, but most people disable them because it slows down the computer, and then they say that their usage model only includes one application at one time. I think that we can be doing much more with our processing power, and use up those extra CPU cycles in the >1GHz processors by changing our usage models, and that is one thing that Intel is trying to develop. Jim and others think that Intel and Bapco cook up their benchmarks to reflect fake situations just to look good against the competition, but the fact is that Intel never shows these benchmarks against the competition, anyway; the Internet community does. Intel simply wants to create new usage models to get people to upgrade their computers, and if the Pentium 4 offers an experience in these new usage models, it makes sense to market that! I think the Pentium 4 is far better equipped than the Celeron in handling new kinds of tasks. Benchmarks should reflect that, and they do, but some people like to pooh-pooh them, simply because competitor's products don't perform as well. It seems to me that these people are missing the point, and regressing continually back to the AMD vs Intel debate. As I've said before, Intel has had, and still has, much bigger problems than AMD. While AMD's gains in market share have removed growth from Intel's bottom line, it's not nearly as much as the PC market's loss in demand, which has been the primary reason why Intel has lowered prices so much. But, I assume that a lot of people on this thread assume that every action is in response to AMD's threat, as if Intel concentrates as much on AMD as AMD concentrates on Intel. The fact is that AMD considers their only competitor Intel (as they've said publicly many times), while AMD is simply one aspect of Intel's worries. As soon as people realize that, Intel's actions make a whole lot more sense. wanna_bmw