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Technology Stocks : Advanced Micro Devices - Moderated (AMD) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jcholewa who wrote (60542)	10/26/2001 3:51:38 PM
From: wanna_bmw	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 275872

JC, here is Bapco's explanation about how SysMark works. It has been on the web page since the beginning. Office Productivity Scenario: This scenario models a corporate user working for an automobile company. The user creates documents using Word, Excel and PowerPoint. The user also accesses email and queries a database. An Internet browser is used to view presentations. The user also invokes a speech to text translation, file compression and virus detection in the background. Microsoft* Word* 2000 The user opens up an assembly manual (Word) document for a new transmission system. The user makes some formatting changes, inserts step by step diagrams, text additions, applies some different background themes, prints the document, and saves the document in web page format. Microsoft* Excel* 2000 The user opens up some sales and revenue figures from a spreadsheet. The data is sorted and modified. Various charts related to sales and revenue are created from the data and published in web page format. Microsoft* PowerPoint* 2000 The user opens up a business presentation to update the previous quarter’s news and sales. Some pictures of automobile manufacturing facilities are inserted into the presentation. Edits and formatting changes are made. Changes are reviewed as they are made using the slide show. The presentation is then given an appropriate background theme and saved in web page format. Microsoft Access 2000 The user loads last month’s database and cleans up the tables, imports current month’s data from text tables, processes queries, checks results and opens the generated reports and prints them. Microsoft Outlook 2000, The user searches for text in the messages in the inbox, archives messages, marks all items as read, spell checks, prints and sends some emails. Netscape* Communicator* 6.0 The user opens an automotive documentation page and looks for a keyword, then checks the source file. After that, the user browses through a PowerPoint presentation saved in web format. Dragon* NaturallySpeaking* Preferred v.5 The user transcribes a pre-recorded wave file of a document. The transcribing takes place in the background. WinZip 8.0 The user compresses a collection of video files in the background. McAfee VirusScan 5.13 The user runs a Virus scan on some files in the background. Internet Content Creation Scenario: In this scenario, a Web developer creates two web pages for an Extreme Sports company selling a Kayaking product. Images are manipulated in Photoshop and web animations created in Flash are used on a web page created by Dreamweaver. A Kayaking promotional video clip is assembled in Premiere. The page also has links to a video clip that was encoded using Windows Media Encoder. Adobe* Photoshop* 6.0 The user opens a high definition picture and runs a few sample filters, experiments with the size and orientation, changes pixel/inch ratio, fades the image, adds a border, saves the result image under jpeg format and prints the resultant image. Adobe* Premiere* 6.0 The user assembles a promotional video for a Kayaking product from stock footage. Various effects are added to make it compelling. The video is then exported in a compressed format. Macromedia Dreamweaver 4 The user creates two web pages for the online extreme sports company. The first page gives an overview of four kayaking products. The second page gives the details on a specific product. The Flash animation, Photoshop images and the encoded video are imported from the respective applications. Macromedia Flash 5 The user starts with an FLA file. The following operations are then performed: Step through the desired frames; go to the Library and locate the desired symbol to delete; Import and trace bitmaps; Flip and rotate images; Move, scale and group images. Finally export the movie. Microsoft Windows Media Encoder 7 The user takes a video clip and encodes it in the background. bapco.com - What about this represents a work load that (you claim) won't show up until 5 years in the future? - What about this documentation does not (as you claim) justify the changes in the usage model? - What about this benchmark is so different than how 99.99% of the populace (that you claim) doesn't work in this way? - What about this situation (as you claim) artificially favors Pentium 4 over Pentium III? JC, I agree with you on a lot of things, but your negativity on Bapco is not backed up by the facts! wanna_bmw

To: jcholewa who wrote (60542)	10/26/2001 3:59:11 PM
From: dale_laroy	Respond to of 275872

>But there's no sign that they're going to any time soon be doing defragging in the background, for instance.< I've thought it would be interesting to create a benign virus that would do defragging in the background.

To: jcholewa who wrote (60542)	10/26/2001 4:05:44 PM
From: wanna_bmw	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 275872

JC, Re: "> I think the Pentium 4 is far better equipped than > the Celeron in handling new kinds of tasks. That's a very subjective statement. If we ignore the memory bandwidth advantage, then I am not sure that I agree with you. MMX is finally in compilers and is getting into binaries. And P4 suddenly halves the max throughput of MMX compared to an equally clocked Celeron." No, in some case, latency is slower, but throughput is not. In fact, throughput is increased due to higher clock frequencies. Re: "P4 has smaller data cache than a Celeron." And how much of a penalty do you figure this causes? Do you have any data on the miss rate before and after the changes? Re: "It has L2 cache that on tests appear to have higher latency than the L2 on the Celeron." Absolutely not true! The L2 cache is lower latency on the Pentium 4, and the bandwidth is much larger as well. Since cache bandwidth is directly related to frequency, the Pentium 4 has an even larger advantage. The Pentium 4 cache also has the ability to do more more loads and stores per clock as the P6. Re: "Celeron can decode more instructions per clock than Pentium 4." And this doesn't help much if these instructions aren't getting executed. You also forget that the majority of instructions in the Pentium 4 get accessed from the Trace Cache, NOT the decoder. "Does this sound like a processor design that is uncontestably better made for the future?" Yes! You apparently do not fully understand the micro-architecture, which is why you are making these lame attempts to show that Intel's 5 year old P6 micro-architecture is somehow more advanced than their brand new Netburst micro-architecture. If you really knew all the changes that went into the Pentium 4, you would see that it is far more advanced, and is much more capable of higher performance than any P6 core, especially the Celeron. "Or is the only real benefit to the memory heavy assumptions of times to come just the higher frequency and bigger memory bus?" No, the Pentium 4 has many features that increase IPC. However, more than any micro-architecture in the past, there are also a lot of micro-architectural performance issues. Many research firms, as well as Intel themselves, have discussed some of these issues. They are reported in technical journals, at trade shows, or off the cuff, but I am aware of quite a few things that are in the progress of being vastly improved. Because you have concentrated more on benchmarks than understanding the actual micro-architecture, you have fully underestimated it. I don't blame you, but in the future, you will be very surprised with what the Netburst core can deliver. wanna_bmw