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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Raymond Duray who wrote (7872)	10/28/2001 1:44:34 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 281500

On the one hand, it's true that during the Cold War we supported any number of unsavory characters under the theory, "he may be a right-wing thug, but he's our anti-communist right-wing thug." On the other hand, none of this comes close to making Ho Chi Minh or Fidel Castro into democrats, and to suggest otherwise is just ludicrous. Talked to any Cuban refugees lately? Also, pretending that our actions during the Cold War were only the result of the CIA's malevolence, without regard to an actual Soviet threat, are similarly just plain silly.

To: Raymond Duray who wrote (7872)	10/28/2001 6:18:23 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

to use modern means of enslavement and subjugation. Geezus Raymond... I guess in your eyes the US should receive NO CREDIT for the anti-colonial posture it took with its WWII allies, Britain and France?? I'm frankly incredulous about what I'm perceiving you saying about "enslaving and subjugating". Because, dammit... it we wanted to subjugate and enslave, we could have done it, by god... For you to claim the US has somehow been responsible for the evil in this world, while ommitting the far greater evil that has been perpetrated by Communist aggression over the past, is simply intellectually dishonest. The US "government" is not some monolithic organism operating in complete unity of purpose. It's policies and interests often change with each new administration (one of the greatest criticisms of US foreign policy)... And since you claim the banking system is "enslaving", I guess I have to ask just how you would propose creating a financial system... Gold? Do away with interest bearing loans and just give the money away? Complaints, complaints... that's all I seem to hear from people holding opinions like yours related to past mistakes and/or abuses of US foreign policy. But none of you seem to be willing to discuss the more grievous abuses of other nations, where corporate interests are MUCH MORE INTERTWINED WITH THEIR GOVERNMENTS, to include providing direct espionage services and intelligence in support of their companies (gold mining in S. Africa... Europe violating US economic santions against apartheid... French adventurism in Africa...etc) And you certainly don't want to discuss the opression derived from the "national corporation" that a centralized economy represents. An economy where the government is the only company that matters, and government policies are corporate policies on a massive scale. Ask a Vietnamese-American why they fled the communists... Ask them why millions of them fled N. Vietnam for the south when it was clear the communists would control the northern partition of that country... And ask them why they fled once again to the US after the North conquered the south. Ask those N. Koreans who fled the North during that MISERABLY COLD WINTER at the Chosin reservoir, when US forces were forced to retreat by invading Chinese communists. Why would they risk their families freezing to death in that winter hell if communism were so "good" and the US so "evil"??? Even though history reflects that millions of people fled the oppression of communism (they certainly didn't flee TOWARDS IT), people like yourself remain myopic enough to believe that the US is the nation primarily responsible for the barbarity and poverty that exists in this world. I wish I could really say that I'm astounded, but to be frank, I'm disappointed. It's a sign of bias entering into a broad historical analysis. For all the mistakes we've made, and abuses we've been responsible for, IT IS OBVIOUS that FAR MORE GOOD than evil has been derived from the participation of the US around the world. We certainly didn't create evil... It exists everywhere.. Corruption exists everywhere, whether driven by money and/or political power over people's lives. And "goodness" and decency has a hard time prevailing against it. And by god.. if you're going to criticize the US for the mistakes and abuses of some, you BETTER D*MN WELL GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE, when we the US does something noble and right. All I want is some balance and objectivity from you Raymond... I expect at least that much from you because I've considered you to be a man or intelligence. Hawk