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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (197091)	10/28/2001 5:53:45 PM
From: PROLIFE	Respond to of 769670

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and, for a time, they seem invincible, but in the end they always fail. Think of it - ALWAYS." -Mahatma Gandhi killed right? yes, in eternity they will fail. but we have a real world, as Ghandi found out. If one walks up to your daughter and puts a gun to her head and tells you it is her or them....who is it going to be??? will you say goodbye to your child?

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (197091)	10/28/2001 5:55:07 PM
From: Don Pueblo	Respond to of 769670

I understand your argument that good will always win out over evil. It's wrong. Good will eventually win out over evil, but there will be some bullets flying around in-between. I saw it already on TV, I know it's true. We should probably end our discourse, because I get the feeling that I am understanding where you are coming from and you are refusing to understand what I just typed. Best of luck on your journey, and I hope it comes out the way you intend it to for yourself and everyone else.

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (197091)	10/28/2001 6:11:59 PM
From: Gordon A. Langston	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

Tyrants may always fail but even Gandhi did not say why, except that they are defeated by Right, .....always. Aren't we Right to try and defeat Tyrants? Gandhi also says Jews should have walked willingly to their deaths, the better to make their plight more visible to the world. Orwell adds that after the war Gandhi justified his position, saying, "The Jews had been killed anyway and might as well have died significantly." Again, he was making a tactical, not a principled, statement. One has to ask what the consequences of the actions he recommended would have been. That's speculation based on little evidence. But for him to have made that recommendation at the time would have been grotesque. What he should have been emphasizing is: "Look, powerless people who are being led to slaughter can't do anything. Therefore it's up to others to prevent them from being massacred." To give them advice on how they should be slaughtered isn't very uplifting -- to put it mildly. As Orwell would say in his essay on Kipling "[Kipling] sees clearly that men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilised, are there to guard and feed them."

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (197091)	10/28/2001 6:34:49 PM
From: Gordon A. Langston	Respond to of 769670

As I said before, ignorance is the root cause of evil Even Buddha disagrees. 1. LOBHA or Greed 2. MOHA or Delusion (which is a larger subject than mere ignorance) As a commentary I would have to conclude he meant willful ignorance. 3. DOSA or Hatred and Anger From this one could easily claim that it is you that is delusional or ignorant. All hail, Delusion! Were it not for thee The World turned topsy-turvy we should see; For Vice, respectable with cleanly fancies, Would fly abandoned Virtue's gross advances. Ambrose Bierce Like I said, I don't throw your idea on the ashheap but if you don't flesh it out few will be inclined to buy it.

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (197091)	10/28/2001 8:13:34 PM
From: Little Joe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and, for a time, they seem invincible, but in the end they always fail." Brian: I appreciate your idealism, but history does not prove you right at all. Hitler would have killed ghandhi without blinking an eye. Look at Stalin, Khmer Rougeetc. these folks are not won over by love but by force. History is replete with bad guys who won. There are very few instances where turn the other cheek worked . India, for one and the American Civil Rights movement. Remember, both of these were civil protests against their own country's government. Little joe Little joe

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (197091)	10/29/2001 10:13:31 AM
From: DMaA	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

ignorance is the root cause of evil. This misconception is the root cause of much wasted time, effort and treasure. To the extent that our leaders believe it and their actions are guided by this believe, their efforts are doomed to failure, and 10’s of thousands are doomed to be victims of evil. Bin Ladin received the finest western education available. He is still evil.

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (197091)	10/30/2001 2:53:04 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

My argument is that Good will always win out, even if there is no battle. I True. But there can be enormous numbers of dead bodies first. Remember Adolph Hitler? 25 to 50 million people were dead by the time Right triumphed. And Right triumphed ONLY because the US and Britain resisted him with force. Suppose they had not. Do you honestly believe Hitler would not have killed all those Jews? That he would not have invaded Poland and Russia? He clearly stated his intention to do so in "Mein Kampf". In the end Right will always prevail. Maybe. But neither you nor anyone you know may be alive to see it. And you ignore an important point: Commonly Right triumphs by beating the piss out of Wrong.