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Gold/Mining/Energy : Gold Price Monitor -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Real Man who wrote (78943)	10/30/2001 10:40:02 AM
From: IngotWeTrust	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116972

Vi, while acknowledging you asked for "experience with" and haven't received any takers, may I then be permitted to respond re: concept and execution problems with the e-gold and e-silver products/promotions. First of all, allow me to direct your attention to the URL with a few observations/comments after the URL: biz.yahoo.com 1) The Bond market has 3 times the TRADING VOLUME size as does the entire USA equities markets, which include NYSE, OTC-BB, NASDAQ AND AMEX. 2) DUE to cost of system maintenance a/w/a transaction costs per members, THIS lucrative 4 or 5th attempt was both well funded and sponsored acc'd to the list at the bottom of the URL. It didn't make enough to "pay the freight" as it were, neither of the predecessor systems did either. 3) This was a system based upon the UNLIMITED IN THEORY ability to create underlying instruments, i.e., "paper bonds in the non-federal gov't issued sector"--admittedly less than est. 40% market share vs fed. bonds-- 4) In this unlimited supply potential, it was STILL unprofitable to maintain or amortize start-up costs, plus ongoing system maintenance and systemic transaction costs and was unceremoniously CLOSED. Now, let's examine my basic problem with ALLLLLL conceptualized egold and esilver vehicles currently operational to date and for the forseeable future using the above 4 observations about the REPEATED FAILED ebond trading modelled above. In e-gold/e-silver virtual gold/silver "schemes" as I like to characterize them: 1) The trading volume in gold=miniscule compared to the ebond trading efforts that so miserable failed repeatedly. 2) To the best I've been able to observe, NONE of the egold/esilver virtual schemes currently on the landscape are anywhere close to being "well-funded NOR well sponsored" in my opinion, at least not on the level of the luminary institutions that backed this latest ebond trading scheme . 3) The egold/esilver schemes are based upon a FINITE amount of gold or silver available to satisfy ability to deliver in said hard commodity if push came to shove, and participants wanted to "cash out." Therefore, these systems are susceptible to fractional "gold" banking mutations as suree as night follows day. The temptation is too great due to the limited availabilty of the physical gold/silver to literally back said systems. Remember...CBanks hold most of the world's gold, so only if and until CB's are the promoters and funders of egold/esilver schemes such as currently are naiscently evolving, will there ever be the liquidity needed for the perpetuation of this latest financial scheme in my opinion. 4) If something of unlimited supply, i.e., paper-non-govt bonds-- couldn't cover start-up costs, system maintenance costs, transaction costs, then how in the hell could something of LIMITED supply expect to survive either? In closing: The systemic danger is TWO-fold in participating in egold/esilver schemes currently available: one is addressed above: irresistable design to move to fractionalization of LIMITED gold available to gold encumbered by "users" scheme mentioned above. (BTW, this gold in egold systems is ALWAYS 24K. Perhaps, the system will mutate to 10K before it is allowed to collapse? YUCK!) This eanything model doesn't work with physical commodities in my opinion like it does with unlimited paper "commodities" such as non-govt bonds. The second systemic danger is this: egold and esilver contain within their framework the unexploded bomb of illiquidity due to the POTENTIAL for demand to outstrip physical supply to satisfy delivery of physical against the ecommittments/encumberances. This is especially alarming to me considering the FACT that world CB's control the supply and not the "free marketers/capitalists" that have dreamed up this virtual egold/esilver scheme. The reason I use unexploded bomb of illiquidity due to potential for demand to outstrip supply is also TWO-FOLD: 1) It is one thing to ask folks to convert fiat to egold or esilver for ability to "HOLD" physical gold in an electronic form, as kind of a fail-safe, physical savings account mechanism as it were. There isn't enough gold most especially to deliver against any kind of exponential expansion in this model. That has already been addressed. 2) IT IS QUITE ANOTHER THING to ask folks to convert fiat to egold or esilver for the purpose of SPENDING those "secured by physical" credits. Can you imagine the potential scenario where spending goes amuck and the current egold and esilver systems can't keep up with participating consumer spending habits? We live in a plastic card/ borrow borrow borrow world, especially here in the West. We are voracious consumers of every good and service and commodity imaginable. If egold/esilver were to really catch on, not only would underfunded schemes go belly up first, taking your "exchanged fiat" with it, BUT COSTS for upgraded hardware requirements and systemic maintenance of existing including increased personnel and security/firewall/regulation etc., would skyrocket, taking transaction costs with it. Or, to put it another way...how long has it been since you were able to mail a letter for 2c postage? So, in summary, since I won't offer you experience as an egold/esilver participant since I only believe in physical gold and physical silver participation, my gut says: stay away...FAR FAR AWAY. Please, let me know if this helps you any. Selah gold_tutor

To: Real Man who wrote (78943)	11/3/2001 8:54:05 AM
From: IngotWeTrust	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116972

Hi, Vi...found this just now...perhaps U can C why egold has earned its negative rep? OPEN QUOTE: Welcome to GOLD MADNESS ! AUTOMATICALLY receive 15% DAILY for 30 ! PLUS, potentially earn MUCH MORE with multiple entries and Referral Bonuses! (your Referral ID is your E-gold account number) Minimum daily spend is $20 and there is no daily maximum. Spend as often as you like; but, we do ask that you spend within your limits. SPEND TO EGOLD* ACCOUNT # 3xxxxx For every person you refer, you will receive 5% of their spend amount everyday. Simply include your email address and referrer's e-gold Account Number in the memo field of EACH spend (Cheat proof). How It Works: Day 1 - Spend. Days 2 -30 You receive 15% OR MORE (with Referral Bonuses) Daily for a full month! Joining and spending in the program will be continuous 24 hours a day. We DO payout on weekends. All monies spent into Gold Madness are actively placed into High Yield Income Opportunities. We already have our own funds working in various High Yield Income Opportunities; so, we are starting out ahead of schedule knowing from experience that High Yield Income Programs can sometimes be delayed or cancelled. We only participate in High Yield Income Opportunities where monies are placed in a Secure Bank Account and the principal is never at risk. ATTENTION : Posts not related with "GoldMadness" will be deleted ! CLOSE QUOTE: Would you believe this is an actual thread from Yahoo? Ayup. groups.yahoo.com Bet those "kick-backs" don't come/get funded from buying gold at a "discount" from some refiner and then selling it for a premium to a "dealer." Remember my comment about the potential for unlimited demand on limited supply backing leading to potential for abuse by fractionalization and/or collapse of egold schemes, due to poor sponsorship, and exhorbitant system maintenance costs let alone transaction cost negative amortization? Would you believe there are approx 130 posts to that thread, mostly by individuals bragging they got "paid"... Got any snow? Or maybe London Bridge?<g> What the heck...placing an ad and selling fractional snowflakes or bridge abutement stones might earn you a handsome annuity/kickback scheme. And then there is the small matter of spreading around your egold account number to strangers... It's one thing to use said system to purchase items from "merchants" who at least have some semblance of propriety and regulations...but howabout some hacker getting your egold account number in the name of 5% "sharing"...this promotion of the lack of privacy amazes me. have a good weekend. (( BTW...what is UCIUC? or whatever that institution is in your SI Profile? Not being a Floridian, I don't recognize it.))

To: Real Man who wrote (78943)	11/3/2001 3:23:26 PM
From: IngotWeTrust	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 116972

Vi...here's an egold that will survive...and with terrible consequences to the West! OPEN QUOTE (snipits from a David Vaughn think piece using HIS quotes and HIS sources: 11/2/01) This past summer a seminar was planned by a group of Islamic countries including representatives from the Islamic banking sector* to look into the feasibility of creating an Islamic World Currency based on gold & silver coinage: the Dinar & Dirham. --The Institute of Islamic Banking & Insurance "The Islamic Dinar is a specific weight of gold equivalent to 4.3 grammes. The Islamic Dirham is a specific weight of silver equivalent to 3.0 grammes." --- The World Islamic Trading Organization "The crash of the current financial system is inevitable…The only people who won’t lose everything are those who have turned their stocks, bonds, savings and other investments into real and tangible assets like gold and land…The reality is that when trading on the stock market is suspended and share prices have hit zero history will repeat itself and Muslims will be left holding worthless bits of paper called share certificates to match the other worthless bits of paper called money or bank notes." --- Muslim Open Trade Network "If we do not use US dollars, we do not need to peg ringgit with dollars," --- Finance Minister Datuk Seri Dr. Mahathir Mohamad "The Islam Today Working Weekend saw the first public demonstration of the "e-Dinar" digital currency (an ATM type debit card, but backed by gold), a key new facility which takes advantage of the most recent advances in Internet based commercial transacting and which has the potential to greatly accelerate the development of the Dinar and the Dirham into a world-wide medium of exchange and payment" --- M. O. T. N. "A network of Wakalas integrated by the e-Dinar will form the operational core of the Islamic money system and will eventually enable it to function entirely independently of the current (US) banking system. The Wakala network will operate a worldwide Dinar account and payment system which is 100% gold backed. The Islamic Wakala of Dubai has been established as the first clearing house and main gold deposit for the entire network." ---M. O. T. N. The Western version to the e-Dinar card is e-gold, GoldGrams, Standard Reserve (a more traditional debit card & can be used in ATM machines), GoldMoney.com, & MetalSavings (will pay interest on deposits). All of these electronic payment systems are 100% backed by gold. "The digital gold community is expanding rapidly…There are now more people than ever using digital Gold…" CLOSE QUOTES of David Vaughn from his sources ====================================== MY COMMENTARY: =============== Remember when I replied to you earlier, Vi, and made the following point: Remember...CBanks hold most of the world's gold, so only if and until CB's are the promoters and funders of egold/esilver schemes such as currently are naiscently evolving, will there ever be the liquidity needed for the perpetuation of this latest financial scheme in my opinion. Well, well, well.... wouldn't you know...not only does an egold system exist, backed by a "central bank per se"---in Dubai BUT IT IS OWNED AND OPERATED BY OUR ENEMIES, to the benefit of approx 2 billion Muslims. GOD HAVE MERCY on the rotten to the core, phoney phractional, pfiat US$ awash in the world. As I watch the US lead the charge to bankrupt/freeze financing of terrorist organizations on a global level, I can't help but wonder if there aren't plans afoot to disrupt their edinar digital gold systems??? So, we have the US$, the EMU, the edinar"mu" with us currently, and the Bretton Woods Currency Accord AMU on the come... So, if we are successful in disrupting "THEIR" electronic egold currency communications and transactions, just how safe do you think our naiscently evolving egold schemes are...especially those who are passing around their egold account number to make 5% off of strangers? I can't believe the stupidity of some Western consumers!