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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (8198)	10/30/2001 9:10:18 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Um, LindyBill, having grown up in Louisiana, I do know a bit about oil fields. I think you are mistaken about property law. Mineral rights belong to the property owners unless the property owner sells them. Thus, oil fields do not belong to the people who discover them, nor to the people who bring in equipment to extract the oil. These people don't have any right whatsoever to the oil without a valid, enforceable contract. What was nationalized was not the oil, but the structures and infrastructure to extract and ship the oil, essentially the localized operations of the oil company. And, as far as I know, compensation was negotiated and paid. When governments exercise their right to eminent domain, the sellers are never satisfied with the price, but they have to take what they can get. So the deals are done. I agree that the oil companies were not willing to sell their assets, but they've learned to live with it, and continue to do business with the countries, so there's no point getting riled up about it now. From the Things Never Change Department: Aramco was nationalized (in part) because of our support for Israel. Memo to the State Department, dated 1967: >>SUBJECT Conversation with Aramco Representative Aramco's Washington representative, John Pendleton, called me this afternoon to read a telegram which he had received from Aramco's Vice President Brougham, who is currently visiting Beirut. Brougham reports a conversation with Saudi Arabian Petroleum Minister Yamani at Beirut airport on 23 May. Yamani is convinced there will be war between the Arabs and Israel. Syria is pushing Nasser toward war and Russia must not resist the Syrians too sharply because Moscow fears Syria is leaning toward Peiping. Yamani recommends that the US keep hands off this crisis, work through the UN and not try to be a policeman. He disagrees flatly with our position on the Gulf of Aqaba and says that if the US directly supports Israel, Aramco can anticipate being nationalized "if not today, then tomorrow." If the US does not stay out of this conflict, the US is finished in the Middle East. When Brougham asked Yamani why Saudi Arabia would object to our standing up to Nasser, Yamani replied, "We are all Arabs. Your government would be foolish if it does not keep out."<< state.gov

To: LindyBill who wrote (8198)	10/30/2001 12:48:41 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Respond to of 281500

Lindy, how about "Greedy racist white male misogynist!" to win an argument with zero need to reason? I agree it's 'moral' to attack thugs, but 'protecting property' isn't quite the same as raiding somebody's 'eminent domain' as CB calls it and nicking off with the oil. You are right that 'selfless' as a good concept is permeating the planet. Which serves the interests of those who are not. Mq

To: LindyBill who wrote (8198)	10/30/2001 1:07:33 PM
From: ratan lal	Respond to of 281500

Hi LindyBill Most of the oil fields under discussion were not found by the people who are now squatting on them, but by Oil companies who went in and discovered them. The oil companies were there at the discretion of the locals. I dont know the exact nature of their contracts, but international contracts specially in the early days were subject to change based on the governments that were in place and those that sunsequently took over. I think that most oil and other international companies recognized this and in any case the oil companies have done very well for themselves even if there were changes in the clauses of their contracts. And if one decides to go back in time, one could go all the way back when the europeans came and took over lands from the native americans or the britishers took over 1/2 the worlds wealth or the muslims took over the eastern countries.