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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (8300)	10/30/2001 10:49:19 PM
From: jjkirk	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawk, Please excuse the interruption of a lurquer. I can't remember from whence came the quote to the effect that "Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics". Ray is trying to lead you in that direction when he talks about staging, resupply, etc. We have no logistics capabilities to compare to Desert Shield/Storm. You cannot resupply an airborne/airmobile brigade by air alone. You need a port and/or a reliable source of overland supply, neither of which are readily available at this point. Even then, when we start to accumulate supplies in fuel and ammunition dumps in any country, we must siphon off grunts to defend these lucrative targets. Add these logistic challenges to the fact that it is VERY difficult to generate high sortie rates from carriers at the ranges we are operating at. At the most, tacair in support of ground troops would have an hour or less on station. The inbrief and orientation would eat up some of that time, so it creates a situation back on the carrier decks not unlike a thousand angels dancing on the head of a pin...recovery, rearming, refueling, remanning, and launching upwards of 75 or more aircraft, all of which need fuel and ammunition and spare parts supplied to the carrier from another source. They kept this up for years in Vietnam, but with a larger number of carriers. However, we also had fixed bases and a much shorter line of supply back to the Philippines. We have a very difficult and challenging problem...sorry that I am considered too old to be of service in working and exorcising the problem. In my heart of hearts, I know that the titles of two books are foremost in the minds of all that are working the problem: A Bridge Too Far and Blackhawk Down. May God bless us with an insight as to how to crack this very challenging nut...and, may we the people of this great nation have the patience not to rush the cadence, but wait patiently while our leaders sort it out. Rome wasn't built in a day...neither was our independence won in three weeks...may we be as morally strong as our forebearers. Keep the faith!.....Semper Fi! Joe K......

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (8300)	10/30/2001 10:56:20 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Hawk, Re: The 101st Airmobile Division launched an ENTIRE BRIGADE deep behind Iraqi lines Well, the first thing you might want to do in Afghanistan is to find "the line". The Iraqis co-operated with the notion of a conventional army with massed infantry and armor, an easy target. There will be no such thing in Afghanistan. Once you launch an entire brigade (from where? BTW? From the Kitty Hawk, ferchissakes?) what's the end-game. They will be surrounded, they will be attrited and they will have no where to go. I'd like to hear your idea of how you get the troops out. I think that's a lot less trivial than getting them in. Re: And although quite an expensive proposition, there is no piece of military equipment we possess that can't be lifted in via C-17, including the M-1.... one tank per flight. Last week, the FRB-NY and the Plunge Protection Team went to work to prop up our equity markets, according to some keen observers who I trust to have a clue. What you finally must ask is how deep a hole you want the U.S. Treasury to dig trying to deal with impossibly silly logistics like you're suggesting. Keep in mind, we're a debtor nation. If we go off the deep end, financially speaking, there may come a tipping point when the Saudis, Japanese and Europeans decide they've had enough of our Treasury bonds and commercial paper. When that happens, we're caught between a rock and hard place. Re: As for armor, it will be useful for rapid reaction and perimeter support (thermal imagery and long range direct fire). Granted, this will work swell in the 3% of Afghanistan that is populated, worth holding and level. For the rest of the country, our gear simply isn't designed, or as in the case of the southwest deserts,there will never be an battles there, in spite of the fact the terrain there gives us a distinct advantage. JMHO, Ray :)