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Pastimes : Understanding Islam -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: James Calladine who wrote (326)	10/31/2001 7:21:35 PM
From: uu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 2926

Jim: I will answer your question in the order you presented them. > -- who wrote it? It is alledged that Mohammad wrote it as God told him to do so. This is what Muslims believe (And a Muslim is defined to be someone who is a follower of the Islamic religion and recognized Quran to be its holy book and Mohammad as its prophet). > what does it say that is of value to me? The discussion on this thread is not about what is of value to you. The purpose of this thread is to Understand Islam, and hence understand why Quran says such things, and why Muslims feel it is a good thing to follow since Quran says it. > Who wrote this?Mohammed? Really? I do not know. But if you talk to any Muslim he/she will tell you that since it is in Quran therefore Mohammad wrote it as God told him to do so. Therefore Muslims believe God said and wrote it. > For sure? Somebody else? When? I dont know. But I think you are missing the whole purpose of this thread! Please refer to the introduction post. > I would say that in my opinion this was written by SOMEBODY, a long time ago to describe behavior that might have been very appropriate in that society at that time. Now this is the type of discussion this thread is all about! To Understand Islam! Your understanding of Islam therefore is partly based on what you stated above. > I do not see the quoted item as having ANYTHING to do with Divine Wisdom, or the Voice of the Divine. This thread is not about Divine Wisdom, or the voice of Divine. It is about Understanding Islam. From above statement can we then conclude that you also believe that Islam ("The Religion") has nothing to with the voice of wisdom or the voice of Divine?! > Social wisdom, maybe. But then, not now. Exactly! And this is also the conclusion that I have reached. Therefore the 1.2 Billion that are following Islam are following a religion whose holy book Quran does not meet the 21st requirements of the civilized world. Namaste! - Addi

To: James Calladine who wrote (326)	10/31/2001 7:35:03 PM
From: Torus	Respond to of 2926

If I may butt in... I believe a few posts previously you said that the topic under discussion is violence in religion. Addi presented a quote that has been referenced in this thread several times with several references to different translations. I think it is obvious that this quote has been interpreted by some believers in Islam as appropriate for today. I don't watch much T.V. but at a friends house the other night I watched in horror at images of an Afghan woman, covered head to toe, being beaten on the street by an Afghan male for some perceived transgression of Islam. If we are here to understand Islam, in my opinion, whether Mohammed wrote that Surrah or someone wrote it in his name or whether it was accidentally mis-quoted makes not one bit of difference. Do you think the welts on that woman's body would hurt any less if the quote was written by someone other than Mohammed? Understanding Islam means understanding it here and today. We can look at issues of the past but they are significant only as they pertain to us today, and perhaps how they will pertain to our children tomorrow. I am in complete agreement with those who state that there is violence in virtually every religion because religion is of man and man is often violent. Making excuses for violence "its close-ended (whine, whine) our violence was good then, yours is bad now" or "beating women is just a means to correct them and to help them survive by obeying us because we know better and it's only a slap on wrist anyway" is unacceptable. Violence is bad, period. It should be stopped, period. Those committing violence in the name of Catholicism should be arrested and jailed. So should those who practice violence in the name of Islam. So the answer to your question "Is it appropriate to current day society in this time?" is NO. It is wholly inappropriate and must be denounced as such. Unfortunately it is being practiced in Afghanistan as if it is not only appropriate but holy. Will you stand with me in this denunciation or not? Again whether the quote says anything about "Divine Wisdom or the Voice of the Divine" is far from the point. The topics are violence in religion and Understanding Islam. Divine wisdom is something else altogether. In my opinion...