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Politics : America Under Siege: The End of Innocence -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (9452)	10/31/2001 10:08:50 PM
From: Lola	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 27666

Asking nothing, President Putin could win all in anti-terror war AFP Moscow, October 31, 19:05 The axiom from the Bulgakov classic The Master and Margarita: "Never ask for anything, especially from those stronger than you. They will come themselves and give all," is playing out in real life as President Vladimir Putin takes Russia into an anti-terror alliance with the West fraught with risk but also unprecedented reward. One after the other, US, British and other Western leaders from all walks of life are rushing to Moscow, scrambling for original ways to demonstrate their gratitude to Putin for his forceful support of their new cause. And while he has asked explicitly for nothing in return for his support of the US-led anti-terror coalition, the Russian leader may gain the most valuable prizes of all: security, investment and respect, experts said. "Americans look around and they see they're not getting as much help from some of their old friends as they would have hoped for," commented Andrei Piontkovski, head of Russia's Center for Strategic Studies. "Where is Nato in all of this? Yet here is a former adversary reaching out a hand," he said. "Americans are touched by this and will not forget it. And I think what will result from this is a US-Russian military alliance." The notion would have seemed far-fetched as recently as September 10, but officials here, in Washington and in London now speak openly about a new inclusive security arrangement with Russia. With the exception of basing US forces in former Soviet republics of central Asia, the extraordinary changes taking place have so far manifest themselves only in the rhetoric of international diplomacy and business. But speaking in Moscow on Wednesday, British Foreign Minister Jack Straw for example evoked need for "a lasting relationship of an entirely different kind between Russia and its partners in the West." It was Putin who first began talking more than a year ago about Russia's desire for closer security bonds with the United States and Europe. He even suggested Russia might one day join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) as protection against threats such as terrorism shared by both Russia and members of the alliance. But while his position on that and other issues has remained unchanged, the United States, Britain and some other Western countries are now making a dramatic reversal in favor of radically better ties with Putin's Russia. "I think the increasing talk of the United States and Russia as allies is not just hot air," the US ambassador to Moscow, Alexander Vershbow, said on Tuesday at a meeting here of the Geneva-based World Economic Forum. "We now can see a long-term convergence of interests." One high-level official Russian source dismissed the notion that Putin had any quid-pro-quo in mind as he continues to demonstrate his commitment to the fight against terrorists. "Putin will never look to deal on this issue," the source said. "Does Russia need things like investment and security? Yes. Has Russia earned a seat at the table? Yes." "But the President will not use the war on terrorism, which Russia has already been fighting for some time alone, as a card to play to get these things. They are independent issues," he added. Maybe, said other officials and political analysts. But at a recent seminar on the evolving US-Russian relationship, experts said Putin ought not to be embarrassed about putting a price tag on his support for the war. "Poland is a US ally, it has 50 per cent of its debt written off," said Sergei Rogov, director of the USA and Canada Studies Institute. "Israel has its debt written off, and Egypt and now Pakistan. So why not raise this issue? What's to be ashamed of... our position when we do not ask for anything in return is naive, dangerous," Rogov said. No sooner had he spoken however than the West's rich and powerful in the shape of the World Economic Forum lauded Putin's new Russia as "an integral part of the world community." "The tragic events of 11 September have rewritten history," Klaus Schwab, the forum's founder and President, said. "A whole change in mindset around the world has happened." But other experts cautioned that even though Putin has not publicly sought to "make a deal" with the West on the anti-terrorism campaign, he nonetheless faced prospects of a backlash at home."I think that for the first time Putin is really risking now," said Sergei Karaganov, chairman of the Council on foreign and Defence Policy in Moscow. "Many don't support him, or at the very least don't understand his policy. There is grumbling now," Karaganov said. thenewspapertoday.com

To: Brumar89 who wrote (9452)	11/1/2001 3:55:26 PM
From: Elmer Flugum	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 27666

Oh contrare, Brumar89. It is not about Judaism, it is about colonialism, straight up! After reading the evidence as presented by the British, I am convinced enough to agree (providing the "facts" are true), that we are within our rights to go after bin Laden. Keep in mind that is one side of the story and the US is not making those comments. Also, the Americans, nor the British turned over any evidence to the Taliban when requested (not that they would do anything with it except to delay our response to the WTC). "Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida have been engaged in a jihad against the United States, and its allies. One of their stated aims is the murder of U.S. citizens, and attacks on America's allies." None of the text the British offered in their release says anything about bin Laden's word that include and it's allies. "Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida provide the Taliban regime with material, financial and military support. They jointly exploit the drugs trade. The Taliban's strength would be seriously weakened without Osama bin Laden's military and financial support. " Why would they need bin Laden's money? "Suicide attackers 1.Coordinated attacks on the same day 2.The aim to cause maximum American casualties 3.Total disregard for other casualties, including Muslim Meticulous long-term planning 1.Absence of warning. 6. Al-Qaida retains the capability and the will to make further attacks on the U.S. and its allies, including the United Kingdom. 7. Al-Qaida gives no warning of terrorist attack. " After 11 September we learned that, not long before, bin Laden had indicated he was about to launch a major attack on America. The detailed planning for the terrorist attacks of 11 September was carried out by one of Osama bin Laden's close associates. Say that again? "The Security Council, in Resolution 1267, condemned Osama bin Laden for sponsoring international terrorism and operating a network of terrorist camps, and demanded that the Taliban surrender Osama bin Laden without further delay so that he could be brought to justice. " Which UN Security Council Resolution should we ignore and which one should we enforce? "69. No other organization has both the motivation and the capability to carry out attacks like those of the 11 September only the al-Qaida network under Osama bin Laden. " What is all the talk about Iraq then? 2. The material in respect of 1998 and the USS Cole comes from indictments and intelligence sources. The material in respect of 11September comes from intelligence and the criminal investigation to date. The details of some aspects cannot be given, but the facts are clear from the intelligence. 3. The document does not contain the totality of the material known to Her Majesty's Government, given the continuing and absolute need to protect intelligence sources. British intelligence or American intelligence? Have there been indictments in the bombing of the USS Cole? "The details of some aspects cannot be given, but the facts are clear from the intelligence. It is accurate because we say it is accurate. Overall, I give a thumbs up giving America the benefit of the doubt. observer.co.uk