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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (199339)11/2/2001 9:39:23 PM
From: RON BL  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
Do you think we will ever have the evidence that will convince the liberals that the Middle East and Africa represent the most barbaric and uncivilized places in the world or will they continue to teach in the universities that they are bastions of democracy and vibrant cultures ?



To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (199339)11/2/2001 9:42:48 PM
From: gao seng  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
What you do not believe Bubba?

Mohamed Saddiq Odeh, convicted al-Qaeda terrorist.

the new york times

September 30, 2001
Al Qaeda Is a Sprawling, Hard-to-Spot Web of Terrorists-in-Waiting
By BENJAMIN WEISER and TIM GOLDEN

In early 1995, at a remote camp in Afghanistan, a 21-year-old Tanzanian man
prepared to begin a new life as a soldier of Islam.

The young man, Khalfan Khamis Mohamed, had just completed training in
weapons, explosives and religious studies. But rather than being sent off on
a mission by the radical group that had prepared him, Al Qaeda, Mr. Mohamed
was simply sent home.

It was three more years before Mr. Mohamed got his call. Four months after
that, he helped bomb the United States Embassy in Dar es Salaam, capital of
Tanzania, one of two attacks in East Africa that day that killed 224 people
and were attributed squarely to Al Qaeda and its founder, Osama bin Laden.

When Mr. Mohamed was captured in 1999, however, he told the F.B.I. that he
was not really sure what Al Qaeda was, and that he had learned only through
news reports who had sponsored his bombing. "KKM stated that he had never
met Osama bin Laden, had not heard him speak, and that he did not know what
Osama bin Laden looked like," the agents who debriefed him wrote.

As the United States prepares now to unleash war against Al Qaeda, its
greatest challenge may be to find the front lines.

In little more than a decade, Mr. bin Laden has created a sprawling, global
network of what are, in effect, terrorists-in-waiting whose skills and
determination are often more finely honed than their loyalties to Al Qaeda
or any of the groups to which it is allied.

The picture emerging from government documents, court transcripts and
interviews is of an underground army so scattered and self- sustaining that
even the elimination of Mr. bin Laden and his closest deputies might not
eradicate the threat they have created.

"Bin Laden is the leader of a movement that doesn't necessarily need a
leader to function and be effective," said Juliette N. Kayyem, a terrorism
expert at the Harvard University Kennedy School of Government and a former
member of the National Commission on Terrorism. "This is such a diffuse
structure that it can survive without him."

Like the suspected hijackers who attacked New York and the Pentagon on Sept.
11, the militants of Al Qaeda's infantry may remain invisible for months or
even years. They may slip quietly back into their homelands to await orders,
or infiltrate into European cities or American suburbs as "sleepers" before
being mobilized to wage what they see as jihad, or holy war.

Even before the Sept. 11 attacks, Mr. bin Laden's soldiers had sometimes
confounded investigators' efforts to fit them into a coherent profile. They
may be middle-aged veterans of the Afghan war or younger men outraged by the
spread of Western culture. They may be well-educated or barely literate,
from prosperous families or poor villages. Some may have sworn an oath
directly to Mr. bin Laden; others, like Mr. Mohamed, may recognize only a
loose allegiance to Al Qaeda, Arabic for "the Base."

The government's understanding of the decentralized nature of Al Qaeda dates
at least to 1996, when Jamal Ahmed al-Fadl, a former aide to Mr. bin Laden,
began secretly to cooperate with the United States. Mr. Fadl was among the
first to join Mr. bin Laden in 1989, the year the Soviet Union withdrew its
troops from Afghanistan after a devastating 10- year war.

"Be ready for another step, because in Afghanistan, everything is over," Mr.
bin Laden exhorted his followers then, according to Mr. Fadl's testimony in
the New York trial of the 1998 embassy bombers.

Over the succeeding years, Mr. bin Laden redrew the map of infidels to
include Israel, the United States and its sometime Arab allies, Egypt and
Saudi Arabia.

According to Mr. Fadl's testimony, Al Qaeda sent trainers to Somalia and
Chechnya, where Muslim forces confronted American and Russian troops
respectively. It emerged after the 1998 bombing of the American Embassy in
Nairobi that Al Qaeda operatives had scouted out that target years earlier
on orders from their leader.

Mr. Fadl sketched a picture of something resembling a corporate structure.
Beneath the "emir," as he says Mr. bin Laden was called, sat a council of
about a dozen advisers called the shura. The council, based in Afghanistan,
included such bin Laden confederates as Muhammad Atef, an Egyptian who
served as military commander, and Ayman al- Zawahiri, a surgeon who leads
Egyptian Islamic Jihad, a terrorist group held responsible for the 1981
assassination of President Anwar el-Sadat of Egypt.

The council, in turn, oversees committees responsible for crucial areas:
military operations, religious affairs, finances, and the production of
false travel and identity documents.

In his testimony, Mr. Fadl suggested that Al Qaeda had taken great advantage
of the protection of the Taliban in Afghanistan to build up a steady supply
of arms and camps to train recruits from around the world.

Just how many soldiers have graduated from Mr. bin Laden's camps is a matter
of conjecture, with estimates in the thousands. But both American
intelligence officials and Mr. bin Laden's own operatives have indicated
that little more than a decade after its founding, Al Qaeda now can draw on
a wide and diverse network of trained operatives.

Mohammed Saddiq Odeh, who was convicted this summer of helping plan the
bombing of the United States Embassy in Nairobi, is a case in point.

Born in Saudi Arabia to Palestinian parents who now live in Jordan, Mr. Odeh
went to study architecture and engineering in the Philippines in 1986, where
he fell in with Islamic radicals who were proselytizing for the struggle of
Afghan Muslims, the mujahedeen, against the occupying Soviet Army.

With $1,000 that his father had given him to complete his studies, Mr. Odeh
flew instead to Afghanistan in 1990 to join the fight. Although the Soviets
had just withdrawn, Mr. Odeh found that Al Qaeda was eagerly seeking
recruits for a new jihad against the West.

"It did not matter what nationality you were," Mr. Odeh later told the
F.B.I., according to a summary of his statement after his arrest in the
embassy bombing case. The F.B.I. statement adds, "Odeh was not interested in
joining any Palestinian groups, because its members took orders from a chain
of command and would often do things that were not Islamically correct if
ordered to do so."

After basic military training, Mr. Odeh went on to specialize in explosives.
He worked as a military instructor and a medic before deciding to swear a
formal oath, or "bayat," to Mr. bin Laden. But even then, he was left mostly
to his own devices for the next five years, moving between Kenya and
Somalia, training Muslim fighters and finally settling in a small village in
Kenya, where he married and had a son. Eventually, Mr. Odeh joined the cell
that was later activated for the embassy bombing in Nairobi.

Mr. Odeh's concern for religious purity was not necessarily the defining
characteristic of Al Qaeda's recruits. Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian drifter,
joined up after spending years as a common thief.

Mr. Ressam began cooperating with the United States government after he was
convicted last April in a plot to blow up Los Angeles International Airport
during millennial celebrations. He had worked in Algeria in a coffee shop
owned by his father. He sneaked into Corsica in 1992, and worked picking
oranges and grapes. Then, with a phony French passport, he moved to Canada
in 1994, he said, "to improve my life."

For the next four years, according to his testimony at the Manhattan trial
of a co-defendant this year, Mr. Ressam supported himself on welfare checks
and by stealing suitcases from tourists in Montreal hotels - selling the
passports on the black market and helping himself to the traveler's checks
and credit cards.

After hearing stories about Afghanistan from friends, Mr. Ressam decided in
1998 to go there himself. His goal, he said, was to join a "jihad in
Algeria."

He spent nearly six months training in an Afghan camp with Muslims of every
stripe - Jordanians, Yemenis, Saudis, Swedes, Germans, French, Turks, and
Chechens. He was then placed with five other Algerians in a cell led by a
contact who kept in touch with Al Qaeda operatives in Europe.

"We were all to meet in Canada," Mr. Ressam testified, "and we were all to
carry out operations of bank robberies and then get the money to carry out
an operation in America." Mr. Ressam said he ultimately chose the Los
Angeles airport because he had flown through it and knew his way around it a
bit.

Al Qaeda had also long drawn children of privilege, like the suspected Sept.
11 hijacker Mohamed Atta, the son of a Cairo lawyer who was sent to Hamburg
in the early 1990's to study urban planning. Mr. bin Laden himself had grown
up in a very wealthy and prominent family in Saudi Arabia, and later
attracted another man from a rich Saudi family, Mohamed Rashed Daoud
al-'Owhali.

Born in England while his father was studying there, Mr. al-'Owhali began
devouring stories about Islamic martyrs while still in his early teens, he
told the F.B.I. After two years in a religious university in Riyadh, he,
too, went to Afghanistan.

At the end of his initial training, he was granted an audience with Mr. bin
Laden, who advised him to get more. He then attended a "jihad war camp," he
said, where he learned about security, intelligence, kidnapping, and the
hijacking of buses and planes.

Again, he met with Mr. bin Laden, and again he was told to wait his turn.
"Take your time," he quoted Mr. bin Laden as saying. "Your mission will come
in time." Finally, Mr. al-'Owhali was assigned to help in the 1998 bombing
of the Embassy in Nairobi.

Mr. Odeh, the Jordanian who helped prepare that attack, distinguished for
the F.B.I. between two types of Al Qaeda operatives. A more sophisticated
group takes care of the planning - gathering intelligence, picking targets,
doing surveillance and making bombs. Those who actually carry out the
attack, he suggested, are more expendable.

"These people are good Muslims, but they are not experts in anything that
would have a long-term benefit to the rest of the group," he said.

Khalfan Mohamed appeared to be one of the throwaways. After helping to bomb
the American Embassy in his native Tanzania, he ended up in Cape Town, South
Africa, working at a fast-food joint called Burger World.

Yet if Mr. Mohamed's development as an operative of Al Qaeda was limited,
there was also a powerful simplicity to his ideas.

"KKM stated that his views about America began when he went to training in
Afghanistan," the F.B.I. agent who debriefed him wrote. "KKM stated that
America is a superpower with the ability to change the world. KKM stated
that only bombings will make America listen to them."



To: J_F_Shepard who wrote (199339)11/2/2001 11:31:33 PM
From: ManyMoose  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
I once served on a jury that failed to reach a verdict because one juror, who happened to be the foreman because we decided to pick the oldest, refused to confront the facts.

Because of my experience, I can see the weakness of the jury system, but I also believe that it is the most solemn and important duty imposed on citizens of our country.

So, no, I can't say I would have convicted OJ. I didn't hear all the evidence. I believe the jury, although the one in LA seemed pretty stacked to me. I know nothing about the Florida case. Most people I know are convinced OJ did it, but I'm not willing to say that because I didn't sit through the evidence.

I will say that Mark Furman got a raw deal and was the victim of much injustice.

In the case of bin Laden, I don't much care if I see any evidence as long as he is converted to a form of existence that prevents his ever doing it again.

I think we have already seen evidence that says it was bin Laden. Even if it wasn't, he made it possible, so it doesn't matter. He's not entitled to US constitutional guarantees.