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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (8935)	11/4/2001 11:23:13 PM
From: BirdDog	Respond to of 281500

...If everything the US does is merely a "front" for some conspiracy... Hey Hawk? Let me tell ya buddy... There are people out there who have our government pegged on conspiracies. Books upon books of evidence. All of it diligently documented on exact time and date of occurence. They have hard videotape of UFO's flying around area 51. They even have many many credible witnesses who have been abducted by aliens our government is conspiring with. Now do you think I try arguing with them? BirdDog@WhereSeldomeIsHeardADiscouragingWord.com

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (8935)	11/4/2001 11:59:17 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Hawkmoon, Re: I think you missed my point. It certain isn't the first time. <w> Re: then it begs the question as to who Bin Laden's handlers are... I see a mixed lot of fundamentalist mullahs as providing the philosophical background, and there clearly is a financial organization behind Bin Laden, who is as Colin Powell describes him "straight out of central casting". But Bin Laden serves his "tribe" in much the same way the George W. Bush serves ours. He's a figurehead and nominal leader of an organization. The real brains and brawn of the operation are a lot less visible to the naked eye. There's an interesting article in today's (dateline 110501) NY Times regarding how halawas in the U.A.E. have served as transit points for funding of the 9/11 attacks: nytimes.com The salient portion is about mid-article. Clearly, al Qaeda has a sophisticated financial services arm. And they even demand accountability, if the refunds are any indication. Terror came in under budget. Oy vey. Re: The facts are that for every conspiracy out there, one can find a "counter-conspiracy" from a group with diametrically opposed goals... I suppose, but I hardly find anything in the world comparable to the conspiracy to terrorize the American public for decades about foreign bogeymen in order to generate outlandish Defense Department budgets. Every honest observer of our intelligence services admits that these services greatly inflated their reports of the Soviet capability, in order to justify huge expenditures on military equipment and readiness. Re: This is why I think it's plain foolishness to claim that this US action in Afghanistan is just a scheme to gain access to Central Asian oil... It may become an end result, but it was hardly the cause... I haven't made that claim. I've merely pointed out how very convenient a tamed, or subjugated Afghanistan would be for Chevron and Unocal. It would be good for bidness. As far as why we've chosen to attack Afghanistan, there hasn't been any proof provided to us citizens that would stand up in court implicating Bin Laden in the 9/11 events. Though I've no reason to doubt he was involved, the U.S. clearly hasn't proven its case beyond a shadow of a doubt, or even to level of a preponderance of evidence. Thus, a skeptic must be left in some doubt as to ulterior motives. And it is clear that some in Congress and the Administration have been pressing agendas that are clearly aided by crisis, renewed interest in drilling ANWR and weakening our Constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties come to mind here. There are some who are working this crisis as an angle to advance dubious agendas. No doubt about it. Re: I have no desire to escalate this war, but it seems the other side does... I think it is premature to talk about escalation. We clearly are going to become much more involved going forward. Perhaps, if we are wise, we'll let this thing simmer over the winter. As was pointed out cleverly by CNN tonight. They had staged video footage of Don Rumsfeld flying over the terrain near Tashkent and the view of the mountains below in winter was daunting. Rumsfeld's comments, obviously designed to steer those who would demand instant action on the ground is that this isn't a prudent course, and is most likely a waste of troops in miserable conditions. Better to play the game the way the locals do, and start the war again in earnest on Easter. Re: And btw, anyone who has dealt with the State Deparment knows that US foreign policy is more REACTIVE, the proactive... Who cares about State? Look at what the U.S. Trade Representative is doing, or DoD, or the CIA. State can twiddle its thumbs for decade, and U.S. foreign policy will still be made. Re: We're constanting having to play political fire fighter, putting out flame-ups around the world.. Well, what do you expect? That's because we're a meddlesome nation that has decided to waste part of its treasury on being the world's cop. Best, Ray