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To: willcousa who wrote (147114)	11/7/2001 6:10:19 PM
From: Elmer	Respond to of 186894

I can't believe that some on this thread have to rehash any of this. It strikes me as a provocation. Tim is the one who brought up the subject. I would have left it alone if he hadn't blamed everyone else for his own problems. EP

To: willcousa who wrote (147114)	11/7/2001 6:57:48 PM
From: tcmay	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

"Hi Willcousa!" (see comment later on). You wrote: "I just have to chime in and say I am glad to see you back. I have enjoyed your inputs here. I can't believe that some on this thread have to rehash any of this. It strikes me as a provocation." I agree. I've received numerous insulting PMs. I won't forget. One creep even made the false claim that I was planning to shoot someone...probably the people who loosely run the SI forum will see this and say "Oh, a threat! We'll ban him for 7 days." (Interestingly, when I was suspended for 7 days I learned they are not interested in hearing the side of others.) There are many problems with SI's whole approach. Some of the problems: a) the brain-dead quoting conventions. Basically, the "on-screen editor" has zero capabilities for doing the usual Usenet- and even Yahoo-type quoting, with ">" before each line, or different colors, whatever. These quoting conventions are what allow respondents to pick specific parts of articles and comment on them, line by line or paragraph by paragraph. Without adequate quoting tools, long posts tend to get just top-post one-liners. and b) the whole mentality of commenting on the styles, the "rudeness," the attitudes of others. I attribute this to the "control freak mentality" which all of the various 3-day suspensions, 7-day suspensions, and "lifetime bans" (such as the Maniban are threatening to impose on Paul Engel) tend to encourage. The Intel and Moderated AMD threads remind me of a schoolyard filled with children running around saying "Play nice!" and threatening to "tell" on others. In a normal Net environment, without such control freaks running around, people learn to just deal with the attitudes of others. They don't try to "nudge" the styles of others, at least not for long, and they don't send smarmy, condescending notes saying "Glad you listened to my advice about your manners." Lastly, many people address posts as if they're having a personal conversation with the person whose article they're responding to. Often they even waste valuable "first line space" (which in SI's brain-dead architecture is "title space") with nitwitisms like "Hi, Willcousa!" I don't assume _any_ post is necessarily directed at the author of any quoted material, and I think others should carefully consider why this is the proper outlook. When we quote and respond many of us are _not_ talking to the person who authored the quote. Rather, we are using it as a jumping-off point to make some other point, or to critique the point, and so on. I get bizarre PMs from people saying they thought I was "rude" to them, when in fact I was just analyzing the points they had made and expanding on other points. (I think they are also offended that I don't include the "Hi Marge!" and "Hi Tom!" salutations.) If folks in the Intel forum want to get as deeply into this business of tweaking and controlling the posting styles as things are in the Maniban-occupied "Moderated AMD" forum, then they should just bite the bullet and establish a "Moderated Intel" forum. In true Intel fashion, the "Posting Czar" could then subject the Droids to various suspensions. --Tim May