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To: Thomas M. who wrote (8164)	11/7/2001 5:49:12 PM
From: goldsnow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23908

The flag symbolizes the Nile and the Euphrates, the two intended borders of Israel>> That conclusion is based on what quote?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (8164)	11/7/2001 5:51:38 PM
From: goldsnow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

At the ceremony of the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, the dais was decorated with a picture of Theodor Herzl, flanked on either side by the flag of the World Zionist Organization. This flag, adopted by the first Zionist Congress in Basle in 1897, had become accepted by Jewish communities throughout the world as the emblem of Zionism and it was thus natural to use it at the official proclamation of statehood. Five-and-half months earlier, on November 29, 1947 when the Jews of Eretz Israel had poured into the streets to celebrate the United Nations partition resolution, they too had hoisted the flag of the WZO and used it as a unifying symbol. In May, however, only a few days after the Zionist dream had become reality, the question was raised as to whether the Zionist banner should be the flag of the state or should be replaced. The dilemma continued for about six months, until the following notice was published in the Official Gazette: israel-mfa.gov.il The blue stripes on the Zionist flag were inspired by the stripes on the tallit (prayer shawl). The tallit has two separate symbolic aspects: the light blue hue and the stripes. Some say that the stripes are meant to recall the one dyed strand of the ritual fringes (tzitzit). This leads to the significance of the hue itself. According to the Torah, one strand in the tzitzit should be light blue. To judge from references in the Talmud, it was a shade between green and blue. Many symbolic meanings were attributed to it. Rabbi Meir said that it recalls the color of the sky; Rabbi Judah ben Illai maintained that the color of Aaron's staff was light blue, as were the Tablets of the Law, and this is why God commanded the Jews to include it on their prayer shawls: "As long as the people of Israel are looking at this tehelet, they are reminded of {the words} written on the tablets and observe them." In other words, the sight of the color tehelet leads to observance of the commandments. White and tehelet, along with gold and purple, were the colors of the High Priest's raiment (Exodus 28: 4,43) and of the curtains of the Tabernacle (Exodus 26). They were considered to be the colors of purity symbolizing the spirituality of the Jewish people.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (8164)	11/7/2001 5:55:30 PM
From: goldsnow	Respond to of 23908

Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this small country. >>> That is true, nothing changed ...Arabs would never accept Israel, Ben Gurion knew it...still made a strategic mistake by trying to create Israel with huge Arab population...Before Soviet Jews emigration it was 3:1

To: Thomas M. who wrote (8164)	11/7/2001 8:30:36 PM
From: chalu2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

Quotes from the Islamic Association For Palestine? Uh...do you have a better source?; I'm afraid no one who knows their "journalistic practices" believes what is said on Islamic propaganda websites. Their motto is : "No source for a quote! No problem! The Jew must have been thinking it, at least!" I wonder why, if their cause is so just, they have to lie so much, and so outrageously?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (8164)	11/7/2001 8:37:33 PM
From: chalu2	Respond to of 23908

>>The flag symbolizes the Nile and the Euphrates, the two intended borders of Israel.<< Source for this, other than Palestinian propaganda website of Holocaust denial site? And now for a breath of fresh air--the truth: The Blue Stripes The blue stripes on the Zionist flag were inspired by the stripes on the tallit (prayer shawl). The tallit has two separate symbolic aspects: the light blue hue and the stripes. Some say that the stripes are meant to recall the one dyed strand of the ritual fringes (tzitzit). This leads to the significance of the hue itself. According to the Torah, one strand in the tzitzit should be light blue. To judge from references in the Talmud, it was a shade between green and blue. Many symbolic meanings were attributed to it. Rabbi Meir said that it recalls the color of the sky; Rabbi Judah ben Illai maintained that the color of Aaron's staff was light blue, as were the Tablets of the Law, and this is why God commanded the Jews to include it on their prayer shawls: "As long as the people of Israel are looking at this tehelet, they are reminded of {the words} written on the tablets and observe them." In other words, the sight of the color tehelet leads to observance of the commandments. White and tehelet, along with gold and purple, were the colors of the High Priest's raiment (Exodus 28: 4,43) and of the curtains of the Tabernacle (Exodus 26). They were considered to be the colors of purity symbolizing the spirituality of the Jewish people. The first person in modern times who voiced the idea that blue and white are the national colors of the Jewish people, was the Austrian Jewish poet Ludwig August Frankl (1810-1894). More than three decades before the First Zionist Congress, Frankl published a poem entitled "Judah's Colors": When sublime feelings his heart fill, He is mantled in the colors of his country He stands in prayer, wrapped In a sparkling robe of white. The hems of the white robe Are crowned with broad stripes of blue; Like the robe of the High Priest, Adorned with bands of blue threads. These are the colors of the beloved country, Blue and white are the borders of Judah; White is the radiance of the priesthood, And blue, the splendors of the firmament. A. L. Frankl, "Juda's Farben," in Ahnenbilder (Leipzig, 1864), p. 127 Frankl's poem was translated into flowery Hebrew and appeared in the periodical Hahavatzelet (The Rose of Sharon) in 1878. We do not know if the founders of Zionism knew the poem, but it is a fact that the flags of almost all the early Zionist associations borrowed the blue stripes of the tallit. A blue-and-white flag was raised over the agricultural village of Rishon Lezion in 1885 to celebrate the third anniversary of its founding. Independently of the Rishon Lezion event, a blue-and-white flag was raised in 1891 in Boston at the dedication of the meeting hall of the Bnai Zion Educational Society. That flag had blue stripes above and below a Star of David that had the Hebrew word "Maccabee" inscribed in its center. Bnai Zion first displayed their banner publicly in October 1892, during festivities to mark the fourth centenary of the discovery of America. This time the word "Zion" replaced "Maccabee". Flag of the Bnai Zion Educational Society in Boston, 1892 The blue stripes of the Zionist flag serve as a counterweight to the message of the Star of David. They give the flag the religious and ritual aspect totally absent from the latter. Whether the symbolic meaning of the blue stripes was perceived consciously or not, their origin in the tallit reminds onlookers of the Torah commandments. The Zionist flag uses the Star of David to express Jewish unity, which is in turn guided by the precepts of the Torah, as represented by the blue stripes and white background.