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To: Tony Viola who wrote (62896)	11/8/2001 12:04:20 PM
From: AK2004	Respond to of 275872

Tone re: chipsets, motherboard, software, reliability and quality, Intel has all of them. especially in their ia64 family

To: Tony Viola who wrote (62896)	11/8/2001 12:08:20 PM
From: Joe NYC	Respond to of 275872

Tony, The expression is bold-faced, and I keep telling you guys, +/- a few percent performance is meaningless to the customers you want. You many be right that +/- few percent in performance is not very relevant, but 2 points are: - P4 is on average minus few percent, and to claim it is the fastest processor is - errrr not true. - +/- few percent difference in performance can mean difference in selling prices of several $100 Joe

To: Tony Viola who wrote (62896)	11/8/2001 1:51:33 PM
From: pgerassi	Respond to of 275872

Dear Tony: Re: "The things that are much more meaningful, call them the Pentogy, like in trilogy: chipsets, motherboard, software, reliability and quality, Intel has all of them." Let's take them one at a time: 1) Chipsets. They have failed. i820 and MTH failed more than once and were buggy as hell even when they sometimes worked. I845 and i850, bad AGP V2.0 and 3.0 implementation. They get wiped with a 3.3V only universal AGP board, instantly. 2) Motherboard. They have failed. I845 and i850 based did not implement AGP buffering to take care of above problem. i820 with SDRAM, bad, flaky and to top it off, recalled. 3) Software. This is easy. IA-64 compiler can't even decently optimize without help from assembler even after 5 years of work. Intel compiler not much good except for SPEC. 4) Reliability. Try getting a 0.18u P3 1.13 to compile Linux. Boom! Try the universal i845 and i850 Intel MB killer, a 3.3V only universal AGP board. Can't even be trusted to follow their own standard. Any i820 MB with MTH for SDRAM, flaky. run it three times and you get three different answers. 5) Quality. Ever read the errata list on most CPUs, chipsets, etc. The list is as long as your arm, sometimes longer. Can't follow their own standard. 0.18 P3-1.13 fails compiling Linux, now used in over 25% of servers. Haven't fixed the i845 and i850 AGP problem even after 12 months. Typical response to problems ranges from, "Its a feature, not a bug!" to "If we ignore it, maybe it will go away!" or "Wait for <the new thing>! (when it comes, maybe we hope we have better angle)". And the "<Whatever> is available for sale! (if you can find one as we really won't be shipping for >3 months in quantity)". Batting 0 for 5. Maybe if they ignore the problems, they will go away! Hey, it worked before! (note: look up the famous FDIV and the statements "We learned our lesson! We will not do this again!") As to "The expression is bold-faced, and I keep telling you guys, +/- a few percent performance is meaningless to the customers you want." What! Do you know that 800 is +/- a few percent from 733? Intel charges 100% more for that single digit percent increase. And quite a few apps come out with double digit performance gains for AXP over the P4. Maybe that is why AXP is selling everything that is produced! P4, well, isn't! Pete