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Technology Stocks : Rambus (RMBS) - Eagle or Penguin -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: SBHX who wrote (79655)11/9/2001 8:29:33 AM
From: NightOwl  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 93625
 
So SBH,

But rmbs situation is certainly more tragic and allegedly more underhanded, since what emerged from the trial appeared to indicate more than the hiding of patents or broadening of claims, the fraud finding seems to be saying that they went back to modify their filings based on what was learnt from the meetings.

If this is what the Judgment of Fraud is saying, one of the many "next BIG questions" is what's the penalty for Fraud on the PTO itself? One would think the government couldn't let such go by without the FTC getting just a tad out of sorts.

But then one never knows. Perhaps the PTO/FTC is "stupider" than one might think.<vbg>

Time may not tell all, but it will surely reveal the answer to this nBq.

0|0



To: SBHX who wrote (79655)11/9/2001 8:46:56 AM
From: Dave  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 93625
 
Scared,

A couple of points...

The FTC seems to have come out hard against any form of finessing strategy where a company hides their supposed patents while engaging such a body.

Please site evident that this is so.... I haven't seen any item stating this...

If you have ever worked within a standards body, this type of "thing" happens all the time. Companies want the standard to most closely resemble their technology, so that the company can receive a nice return on their R&D and IP initiatives.

If you look at the numbers alone, rambus initial demands for 5% royalties from companies having ddr controllers in their chips amounts to about half of their margins. This apparently amounts to a monopoly in the eyes of an FTC.

Did you know that a patent is a form of a monopoly? A patent may prevent others from making, using, or selling a product/process/etc. for a set period of time. Since we live in a capitalistic society, if a company chooses to license their IP, that company can choose the royalty rate. Let the free market decide.

Of course, rambus could choose not to license their IP to any corporation and make RDRAM. That is their choice. However, they choose to license.

But rmbs situation is certainly more tragic and allegedly more underhanded, since what emerged from the trial appeared to indicate more than the hiding of patents or broadening of claims, the fraud finding seems to be saying that they went back to modify their filings based on what was learnt from the meetings

Yes, the finding of fraud was bad for Rambus, however what about Infineon execs misleading the court during their sworn testimony?

If the fraud was so "egregious" how come Infineon didn't ask the courts to "invalidate" the Rambus patents? Of course, I lack proof, but the reason most likely why Infineon didn't do this is b/c that's how they get patents too.
As for actual definition of terms in a patent : language in patents have to be very explicit. If someone defines an orange to be a yellow elongated fruit with a squishy peel, then that is what it is for the context of the document regardless what the grocery-industry accepted term is.

While true, patent applicants are entitled to equivalents. For example, if a patent holder claimed "fruit", and described fruit as being an apple or an orange, don't you believe that the patentee should be entitled to equivalents, such as pears, bannanas, tomato (isn't that a fruit), etc...

Now with why the bus definition was narrowed, I can't say. Usually after a patent is filed, there is eventually an office action. Sometimes the office action involves prior art ... another invention predating the invention. One common response in the past to such an office action is for the terms to be narrowed.

That is called "file wrapper estoppel". From reading the decision, Rambus never limited themselves to a type of "bus" during the prosecution of those cases. Therefore, Rambus should've been entitled to various "equivalents" of the "bus"

Without following the convoluted chain, it is hard to say this is what happened, but speaking as someone in the industry, there is a plethora of predated inventions from perhaps even textbooks, that will certainly become valid prior art if the definition of bus meant all bus and not just a multiplex bus.

Now you are arguing a separate point. If there was such "prior art", how come it was never applied in court? Infineon never challenged the validity of the patent, their argument was, "We are not infringing upon it"

If you know of such "prior art", I would suggest you bring it to the attention of Infineon so that they may apply that prior art in court, or file a re-exaxmination with the respective patent offices.