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To: craig crawford who wrote (134505)	11/9/2001 3:26:50 PM
From: Oeconomicus	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 164684

Thank God the Framers were both smart and true lovers of liberty. "As treason may be committed against the United States, the authority of the United States ought to be enabled to punish it. But as new-fangled and artificial treasons have been the great engines by which violent factions, the natural offspring of free government, have usually wreaked their alternate malignity on each other, the convention have, with great judgement, opposed a barrier to this peculiar danger, by inserting a constitutional definition of the crime, fixing the proof necessary for conviction of it, and restraining the Congress, even in punishing it, from extending the consequences of guilt beyond the person of its author." Madison, The Federalist Papers, No. 43. That you and Patzi so love to scream "traitor" at those who's opinions you don't like and would like to silence only proves that you either don't understand the first thing about liberty and what America stands for, or you don't give a damn about liberty.

To: craig crawford who wrote (134505)	11/9/2001 3:47:43 PM
From: Oeconomicus	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 164684

"An enlightened zeal for the energy and efficiency of government will be stigmatized as the offspring of a temper fond of despotic power and hostile to the principles of liberty. . . It will be forgotten, on the one hand, that jealousy is the usual concomitant of violent love, and that the noble enthusiasm of liberty is too apt to be infected with a spirit of narrow and illiberal distrust. On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgement, their interests can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidding appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people, commencing demagogues and ending tyrants." Hamilton, The Federalist Papers, No. 1. Think about that when your populist/demagogue, self-proclaimed defenders of liberty rail against government. liberal - "an advocate or adherent of liberalism esp. in individual rights" I am honored that you would classify me along with great American liberals such as Hamilton and Madison.