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Politics : War -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Thomas M. who wrote (8399)	11/10/2001 8:53:23 PM
From: goldsnow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 23908

That's my whole point. If you feel this way, why do you keep fighting my efforts to publicize the point of view which is suppressed >>> This is not your whole point...Your point of view is protected by the First Ammendement...to point out inconsistencies, horrible sources of (mis) information (Electronic Intifada) history revision, and out-right non-existent quotes that you provide all to back-up your whole point of view, is part of the discourse, ..As for Chomsky he has a legitimate right to hold a point of view, despite regarded as erroneous and laughable in the opinions of many...

To: Thomas M. who wrote (8399)	11/10/2001 11:43:34 PM
From: chalu2	Respond to of 23908

Oh,, I forgot, you wanted evidence of persecution of Jews in Iran (despite the fact that I have provided this to you many times). Forcing Jews to violate their sabbath against their will is persecution, no? Government jobs are hard to come by, they say, and Jews have to wait much longer for travel documents and exit visas. The most pressing complaint is that, despite many petitions to Parliament, Jewish schools must open on Saturdays, the Jewish sabbath.

To: Thomas M. who wrote (8399)	11/11/2001 1:54:44 PM
From: goldsnow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 23908

More on point of view, and valid presentation of the point... groups.yahoo.com Samer - You have presented your case well. You are right that these are very sad and frustrating times for all of us who believe in peace and decency. You know I am 150% with you about this: "" Instead, it concluded "he reaffirmed his belief in his father's legacy - to seek ways to speak to the Israeli public - and stressed that "the harder this mission, the more important it becomes." We have always known it would be difficult. I will try to answer your question about why Israeli public opinion is like it is, though I don't make Israeli public opinion. Most Israelis, like most Palestinians and Jordanians, are not racist. I know some racist Israelis, but they don't make policy and they are not the 70% in the opinion polls. In Amman, we saw that they sell books about the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" - even in the "good old days" when it looked like peace was coming soon - but that doesn't mean that most Jordanians are racist. The same "Protocols" are in the Hamas charter and many Palestinians now support the Hamas - but not necessarily because they are racist. 97.% sounds like a fair offer for most people, who did not look at the maps, and did not understand that it was not 97%, and that it was in stages and so on. Misinformation rather than racism is a more likely explanation. That is why we published an explanation at mideastweb, beginning at mideastweb.org . That is one reason why keeping dialog open is so important - so people see both sides. But not every person is interested in looking at maps and reading boring details. Many who do look say "The maps are unofficial - it is not true, just anti-Zionist propaganda." People believe their leaders. Palestinians believe their leaders. Israelis believe their own leaders. They know that the Palestinians promised in the Oslo accords to forego violence, and they know that violence began in September and did not stop. The issue that Israelis see is not "do they agree to this or that offer?" but "are the Palestinians willing to live in peace with Israel?" The answer given by you is "certainly." The answer given by many, many others, apparently the majority, is "no way." In the same way, the issue for you, is "are Israelis willing to let Palestinians live in peace in security in their own state?" The answer for me is "yes." Until September, the answer was "yes" for most Israelis I would judge. In a referendum, I think that Israelis would ratify any agreement that allowed _both_ sides to live in peace. The violence changed all that. Israelis are scared that if we give back Gilo, the gun fire will be directed at the Knesset, and if we give up Jerusalem, the gun fire will be directed at Tel Aviv. Since the PNA broke its word in such a dramatic way, or lost control, few people in Israel have faith in any promises that the PNA would make. Can you really blame us? You are not responsible for Hamas or Islamic Jihad, as I am not responsible for the settler vigilantes and Sharon. But we cannot control the fanatics in our societies.