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To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (134581)	11/11/2001 5:18:08 AM
From: craig crawford	Respond to of 164684

>> ok, thanks for acknowledging you would be unwilling to live like these folks b/c they actually have it quite bad << once again you are off on some strange tangent. what is your point? i'm sure you'd be unwilling to live like folks in afghanistan. should we let them all in the country? >> of course, if you were in serious need, you would want others to shut the door on you and allow you to die, right? and your kids, right? you would understand and smile as your kid's body tore up hsi muscle fiber to use as energy, right? << give me a break! most of the people who hop the fence to come into our country are not on their deathbed. now who is being the demagogue here?? >> after all, a person that could help YOU can't help EVERYONE. right, craig? << why can't that person who needs food get it in mexico? why can't he get a job in mexico? do you even know who the largest employer in mexico is? take a guess! >> i do have compassion for others b/c i could have been in their situation. by the grace of god i am not. frankly, only by the grace of god << i'm glad you are so caring. now if you want to donate your personal funds to support a "kid's body" from being "tore up hsi muscle fiber to use as energy" i'm all for it. but don't expect my tax dollars to do the same. >> i don't think it is a bad thing to make an honest attempt to treat others as i would like to be treated << agreed. so mexicans (just to use them as an example) should stop invading our country to break our laws just as i respect their country and i don't break their laws. >> it is what god says he wants us to do, if you believe the bible << like i said, that's your choice. just don't impose that view on me. let me decide for myself as you have decided for yourself. >> no, we can't save the world. but that doesn't mean we cripple our compassion and harden our hearts against god's creation. << what does that mean exactly? translate that into what it should mean to public policy. >> you make statements you can't prove and don't even know you can't prove them b/c, rather than think, you regurgitate the party line. << oh really? just what party are you referring to? what party line i'm i espousing? surely not the republican party. most definitely not the democratic party. it is you who in just about every post has some criticism of this politician or that one, but when it comes time to offering your own solutions you come up short. you speak in broad generalities like we need to be more compassionate and understanding and we need to see other's points of view. we need to be free thinking and not stick to a party line. a nice convenient way of not having to take a stand, stick with it, and defend it. >> saying "we spent X $ on welfare and poverty increased anyway" doesn't mean those dollars were wasted or that there were "no results" to a rational, thinking mind. it might mean that and it might not. the problem is that you don't have the results of the alternative to gauge it against << not true. our country didn't have an income tax for over a century. we got along just fine. we didn't have welfare and we got along just fine. we didn't have medicare, medicaid, an education department, social security, a federal reserve and other institutions and we got a long just fine. there was not starvation. there was not a homeless problem. so don't presume to tell me that there is no evidence to suggest that my ideas wouldn't work. the truth is, there is no evidence that your ideas work. lbj's great society hasn't done squat to eliminate poverty. it's been long enough. it obviously doesn't work so let's scrap it. >> perhaps poverty would have been double the current level. the result was a 50% reduction in poverty. but, rather than HONESTLY admit you don't know the impact, you say you do. that is misleading. if you keep doing it, it becomes dishonest. << so let me see if i can understand your twisted logic. since we haven't actually implemented these ideas of mine there is no proof they would be an improvement. until there is some sort of proof of an improvement it is pointless to implement change. that's some real nice logic there, skeet! >> but, you don't need data and proof and all that kind of intellectually honest crap << well geez. i know that we stopped the flood of immigration for 40 years and incidences of terrorism ceased. >> you have the party line "repeat it enough and people will believe it is true" propaganda decoder ring! ;-) << what are you talking about? why do you keep bringing up this party line baloney? what party is it that i am beholden to? >> we can't help everyone so f* 'em? << it should be a top priority of our government to look out for americans. what you do as a private citizen is your concern. while we were busy sending foreign aid all over the world and we were busy fighting wars in the balkans and we were busy spending billions and invading haiti i guess we forgot that we should be protecting americans from terrorists. you act like some sort of self-righteous humanitarian good samaritan. too bad you aren't interested in helping out your own countrymen as much as you would help out someone breaking the law by invading our country illegally. >> i hope in your time of need that a person (or deity) able to help you doesn't "treat you as you would treat them (his beloved creation)." << i would hope that in my time of need i wouldn't have to look to the government to take care of me like a sniveling liberal such as yourself would propose. i would head to family or church or some other private organization. the last place i would head would be to the govt for assistance. >> i understand the tough guy, "hey, i'm doing fine, what's the problem, screw everybody else" attitude. i see it as the cause of a lot of problems rather than the solution << i see the cause of the problem being liberals such as yourself believing that govt should make the decisions on how to help people rather than leaving it to the vastly more efficient and caring private sector. >> again, making statements that you can't back up << how do you know? just try me. >> i don't support all liberal or conservative legislation or agendas. your wide brush doesn't allow me to comment further << i'm well aware of that. you're one of those middle of the road i agree with a little of this and a little of that but i'm a free thinker and i always keep my options open so i don't ever have to take a stand and answer for my beliefs kind of person. i can tell you 50 things i don't like or disapprove of but i can't exactly pinpoint what i am in favor of. you're scared to take a firm stance and defend your position so you sum it up quite nicely by saying i don't support all of this or all of that and i'm open to differing opinions, etc. etc. too bad everyone in this country is as apathetic as you. and you were the one who was wondering why all politicians seem the same. they target guys like you who don't have conviction about anything except for not having any convictions at all.

To: Skeeter Bug who wrote (134581)	11/11/2001 5:46:09 AM
From: craig crawford	Respond to of 164684

ok, times up. the largest (private) employer in mexico is none other than.........general motors. as of a couple years ago. of course other countries are catching on to "free trade"---a.k.a. practically "free labor" and practically "free from environmental restrictions" game in mexico. so maybe VW has surpassed GM by now. the point is, countries like japan are not stupid. NAFTA is not just an advantage for north american countries. all japan has to do is locate television plants in mexico and ship them north. japan's investment in mexico increased over 1000% the year after NAFTA went into effect. you would think that wih all these jobs being located in tijuana that there would be no need to hop the fence and come to cali. of course you can come to cali and get free social services along with your undercover job. and of course you don't have to pay taxes here. what a hoot!