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To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (41561)11/11/2001 12:00:37 PM
From: Condor  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50167
 
Ike...you have given market direction on a "when this occurs basis". A standing order so to speak. <g>
Message 16536095
Cheers
C



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (41561)11/11/2001 12:37:18 PM
From: greenspirit  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50167
 
Iqbal, after randomly coming across your posts, I want to express my appreciation for you insights and heartfelt passion. Such posts are what make SI such a wonderfully interesting place to read and communicate.

I was wondering if I could get your insight about a recent development. It seems President Bush has asked the Northern Alliance to not enter Kabul, until a coalition government can be established. Do you think this strategy is sound? Please elaborate if you would...

Best,

Michael



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (41561)11/11/2001 1:49:30 PM
From: JustTradeEm  Respond to of 50167
 
Ike, no need for Dear John letters .....

You post whatever you like, whenever you like; many enjoy your thoughts and insights more now than before !

Peace .... JB



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (41561)11/11/2001 3:47:32 PM
From: Gary Kao  Respond to of 50167
 
iqbal: Your views and insights viz-a-viz Pakistan and Afgan are unique are insightful...please do not stop!
BTW, are you an ethnic Pastan, and if so, do you favor the N. Alliance taking Kabul RIGHT NOW? Bush et al. is in fact not in favor of this.
thanks again for everything,

gary



To: IQBAL LATIF who wrote (41561)11/11/2001 10:38:57 PM
From: BubbaFred  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 50167
 
Ike, please enlighten me on the diversity of Afghan culture, and what are the roots of their adversarial feeling and behaviour toward one another? Is it mostly made up by the press, or is it from generations of struggle for control, dominance and power? Are these languages so different that one cannot understand any of the others? Is this another case where Islam has failed to unify Muslims and to extend common respect, kindness and dignity among the Muslims themselves?

The links below show there are 30+ languages in Afghanistan. Many are no longer living languages. Pashto and Dari are the two most dominant ones (official languages, based on the population speaking the language). Both are Indo-European and Parshi related. The next two Uzbek and Turkmen are Turkic related. These were spoken languages, and they became written language when Islam and Arabic writing was introduced to the region. The present written language (alphabets) has Arabic base with local and cultural variations.

----------------------------------------------
A Look at the Languages Spoken in Afghanistan
afghan-web.com
Pashto and Dari (Afghan Persian) are the official languages of Afghanistan. Pashto was declared the National Language of the country during the beginning of Zahir Shah's reign, however, Dari has always been used for business and government transactions. Both belong to the Indo-European group of languages. According to recent US government estimates, approximately 35 percent of the Afghan population speaks Pashto, and about 50 percent speaks Dari. Turkic languages (Uzbek and Turkmen) are spoken by about 11 percent of the population. There are also numerous other languages spoken in the country (Baluchi, Pashai, Nuristani, etc.), and bilingualism is very common.

Both Pashto and Dari are written primarily with the Arabic alphabet, however, there are some modifications. Pashto literature saw a massive rise in development in the 17th century, mostly due to poets like Khushal Khan Khattak, who is known today as the national poet of Afghanistan. Other noteworthy Pashto poets in history were Rahman Baba, and the founder of the modern Afghan nation, Ahmad Shah Abdali.

Dari also has an extensive literature, actually, some of the worlds greatest poems have been written in Dari. Dari poems by Jalaluddin Rumi have been translated from its original Dari versions to numerous other languages, and is widely read even in the west. Many powerful kingdoms of the past such as those of the Moghuls in India, primarily used Dari in their royal courts.

--------------------------------------
Languages of Afghanistan
[See also SIL publications on the languages of Afghanistan.]
ethnologue.com
Republic of Afghanistan. De Afghanistan Jamhuriat. National or official languages: Eastern Farsi, Southern Pashto. 21,354,000 (1998 UN), including an estimated 2,500,000 nomads. Literacy rate 31.5% 15 years and older: male 47.2%, female 15%. Also includes Western Panjabi 35,000, Parsi-Dari 350,000, Tatar 350, Urdu. Information mainly from G. Buddress 1960; A. Farhadi 1967; A. Grjunberg 1968, 1971; T. Sebeok 1970; R. Strand 1973; G. Morgenstierne 1974; L. Dupree 1980; J. R. Payne 1987. Sunni Muslim, Shi’a Muslim, Hindu. Blind population 200,000 (1982 WCE). Data accuracy estimate: C. The number of languages listed for Afghanistan is 45. Of those, all are living languages. Diversity index 0.70.

Spoken living languages AIMAQ [AIQ] 480,000 in Afghanistan (1993) including 1,000 Jamshidi (1978 MARC). Population total all countries 800,000 (1980 Dupree). Alternate names: BARBARI, BERBERI, CHAHAR-AIMAQ, CHAR AIMAQ. Dialects: TAIMURI (TEIMURI, TIMURI, TAIMOURI), TAIMANI, ZOHRI (ZURI), JAMSHIDI (JAMSHEDI, DJAMCHIDI, YEMCHIDI, DZHEMSHID), FIROZKOHI, MALIKI, MIZMAST, CHINGHIZI, ZAINAL. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Southwestern, Persian. More information.

ARABIC, TAJIKI SPOKEN [ABH] 5,000 in Afghanistan (1967 Farhadi). Spoken in a few villages west of Daulatabad (Khushalabad), near Balkh (Yakhdan), Aq Chah (Sultan Aregh), Shibarghan (Hassanabad), and south of Talukan in Takhar Province; 4 northern provinces. Some in Uzbekistan. Dialects: BALKH ARABIC. Classification: Afro-Asiatic, Semitic, Central, South, Arabic. More information.

ASHKUN [ASK] 7,000 195,000 in all Nuristani groups (1993). Pech Valley around Wama, northwest of Asadabad in Kunar Province. Alternate names: ASHKUND, ASHKUNI, WAMAYI, WAMAIS. Dialects: ASHURUVERI (KOLATA, TITIN BAJAYGUL), GRAMSUKRAVIRI, SURUVIRI (WAMAI). Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Nuristani. More information.

AZERBAIJANI, SOUTH [AZB] Afshari dialect spoken in small groups north of Kabul, Chandaul quarter of Kabul city, also some in Herat city. Alternate names: AZERI. Dialects: AFSHARI (AFSHAR, AFSAR). Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Azerbaijani. More information.

BALOCHI, WESTERN [BGN] 200,000 in Afghanistan (1979 estimate). Along Helmand River and Zaranj area, in the southwest desert region. Alternate names: BALUCHI, BALUCI, BALOCI. Dialects: RAKHSHANI (RAXSHANI). Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Northwestern, Balochi. More information.

BRAHUI [BRH] 200,000 in Afghanistan (1980 Dupree). Among the Baluchi in the south, from Shorawak to Chakhansoor. Alternate names: BRAHUIKI, BIRAHUI, KUR GALLI. Classification: Dravidian, Northern. More information.

DARWAZI [DRW] 10,000 (1983). Town of Darwaz on the Amu Darya River, in the northernmost tip of Afghanistan. May also be in Tajikistan. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Southwestern, Persian. More information.

DOMARI [RMT] Dialects: CHURI-WALI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Central zone, Dom. More information.

FARSI, EASTERN [PRS] 5,600,000 25% to 50% of population (1996). Population total both countries 7,000,000. Alternate names: PERSIAN, DARI, PARSI. Dialects: DARI (AFGHAN FARSI, HERATI, TAJIKI, KABOLI, KABULI, KHORASANI), PARSIWAN. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Southwestern, Persian. More information.

GAWAR-BATI [GWT] 8,000 in Afghanistan. Population total both countries 9,500 (1992). Alternate names: GOWARI, NARSATI, NARISATI, ARANDUI, SATRE. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kunar. More information.

GRANGALI [NLI] 5,000 (1994). Grangali and Zemiaki in 2 small valleys on the south side of the Pech River at Kandai. Nangalami was in Ningalam village where the Waigal River meets the Pech River, but there may be no speakers left. Alternate names: GELANGALI, JUMIAKI. Dialects: NANGALAMI (NINGALAMI), GRANGALI, ZEMIAKI (ZAMYAKI). Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kunar. More information.

GUJARI [GJU] 2,000 or fewer in Afghanistan (1994). Nomads travelling in the summer in the valleys of eastern Afghanistan. Alternate names: GUJURI RAJASTHANI, GOJRI, GOJARI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Central zone, Rajasthani, Unclassified. More information.

HAZARAGI [HAZ] 1,403,000 in Afghanistan (1989), 9% of the population (1989). Population total all countries 1,756,000 to 6,000,000. Alternate names: AZARGI, HAZARA, HEZAREH. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Southwestern, Persian. More information.

JAKATI [JAT] 1,000 in Afghanistan (1967). Kabul (25 families); Jalalabad (50 families); Charikar (15 families). Alternate names: JATI, JATU, JAT, JATAKI, KAYANI, MUSALI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Lahnda. More information.

KAMVIRI [QMV] 4,000 in Afghanistan (1973 R. Strand). Population total both countries 6,000. Alternate names: KAMDESHI, LAMERTIVIRI, SHEKHANI, KAMIK. Dialects: KAMVIRI, SHEKHANI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Nuristani. More information.

KARAKALPAK [KAC] 2,000 in Afghanistan. North of Jalalabad, also some south of Mazar-i Sharif. Alternate names: QARAQULPAQS. Dialects: NORTHEAST KARAKALPAK, SOUTHWEST KARAKALPAK. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Western, Aralo-Caspian. More information.

KATI [BSH] 15,000 in Afghanistan (1994). Population total both countries 20,000. Alternate names: BASHGALI, KATIVIRI, NURISTANI. Dialects: EASTERN KATIVIRI (SHEKHANI), WESTERN KATIVIRI, MUMVIRI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Nuristani. More information.

KAZAKH [KAZ] 2,000 in Afghanistan. Northern Afghanistan, especially Chahar Dara District west of Kunduz, and around Khanabad and Andkhoi. 500 in Herat city. Alternate names: KAZAKHI, QAZAQI, QAZAQ. Dialects: NORTHEASTERN KAZAKH, SOUTHERN KAZAKH, WESTERN KAZAKH. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Western, Aralo-Caspian. More information.

KIRGHIZ [KDO] 500 in Afghanistan (445 in the Great Pamir, plus a few in Badakhshan). Great Pamir Valley east of 73E, in the very northeast. It is spoken by a few Kirghiz who wander across the Chinese and Kyrgyzstan frontiers. All from the Little Pamir went to Pakistan and then Turkey in 1982. Alternate names: KIRGHIZI, KIRGIZ. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Western, Aralo-Caspian. More information.

MALAKHEL [MLD] 2,000 (1983). Southwest of Kabul in Logar, north of Baraki. Classification: Unclassified. More information.

MOGHOLI [MLG] 200 or fewer speakers out of an ethnic group of a few thousand. Two villages near Herat: Kundur and Karez-i-Mulla. Alternate names: MOGHOL, MOGUL, MOGOL, MONGUL. Dialects: KUNDUR, KAREZ-I-MULLA. Classification: Altaic, Mongolian, Western. Nearly extinct. More information.

MUNJI [MNJ] 2,000 to 2,500 (1992). Northeastern Afghanistan in the Munjan and Mamalgha Valleys. Alternate names: MUNJANI, MUNJHAN, MUNJIWAR. Dialects: NORTHERN MUNJI, CENTRAL MUNJI, SOUTHERN MUNJI, MAMALGHA MUNJI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Eastern, Southeastern, Pamir. More information.

ORMURI [ORU] 50 speakers out of 2,000 to 5,000 ethnic group members in Afghanistan. Spoken by a few families in Baraki-Barak in Logar. Alternate names: BARGISTA, BARAKS, ORMUI. Dialects: KANIGURAMI, LOGAR. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Northwestern, Ormuri-Parachi. More information.

PAHLAVANI [PHV] Spoken in village Haji Hamza Khan of Karim Kushta in Chakhansoor Province. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Southwestern, Persian. More information.

PARACHI [PRC] 500 to 600 speakers out of 5,000 to 6,000 members of the ethnic group. Villages in Nijrau and Tagau (600 families), Pachaghan, Shutul (400 families), Ghujulan (100 families), Hindu Kush Valley near Kabul. Dialects: SHUTUL, GHUJULAN, NIJRAU. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Western, Northwestern, Ormuri-Parachi. More information.

PARYA [PAQ] Alternate names: AFGHANA-YI NASFURUSH, AFGHANA-YI SIYARUI, LAGHMANI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Central zone, Unclassified. More information.

PASHAYI, NORTHEAST [AEE] Side valleys between the Kunar and Pech rivers, in Kunar Province, west of Asadabad. Dialects: ARET, CHALAS (CHILAS), KANDAK, KURANGAL, KURDAR. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kunar, Pashayi. More information.

PASHAYI, NORTHWEST [GLH] From Gulbahar across Kapisa and Laghman provinces to Nuristan on the Alingar River, especially the Alisheng Valley and valleys north of Sarobi. Dialects: GULBAHAR, KOHNADEH, LAUROWAN, SANJAN, SHUTUL, BOLAGHAIN, PACHAGAN, ALASAI, SHAMAKOT, UZBIN, PANDAU, NAJIL, PARAZHGHAN, PASHAGAR, WADAU, NANGARACH. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kunar, Pashayi. More information.

PASHAYI, SOUTHEAST [DRA] Upper and Lower Darrai Nur Valley, Damench, Shale (Shari). North of Shewa in Nangarhar Province, and adjacent regions of the Alingar Valley in southern Laghman Province. Alternate names: PASHAI. Dialects: DARRAI NUR, WEGAL, LAGHMAN, ALINGAR, KUNAR. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kunar, Pashayi. More information.

PASHAYI, SOUTHWEST [PSH] 108,000 or .6% of the population (1982), including all Pashayi languages or dialects. Tagau (Tagab) Valley, north of Sarobi, northeast of Kabul. Dialects: TAGAU, ISHPI, ISKEN. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kunar, Pashayi. More information.

PASHTO, NORTHERN [PBU] Central Ghilzai area. Alternate names: PAKTU, PAKHTU, PAKHTOO, AFGHAN. Dialects: NORTHWESTERN PAKHTO, GHILZAI, DURANI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Eastern, Southeastern, Pashto. More information.

PASHTO, SOUTHERN [PBT] 8,000,000 all Pashto in Afghanistan (1989), 35% to 50% of the population (1996). Population total all countries 9,204,000 or more. All Pashto in all countries: 19,000,000 (1999 WA). Dialects: SOUTHWESTERN PASHTO, KANDAHAR PASHTO, QANDAHAR PASHTO. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Eastern, Southeastern, Pashto. More information.

PRASUNI [PRN] 2,000. Prasun (Parun) Valley on the upper reaches of Pech River in Nuristan; villages of Shupu (Ishtivi, Shtevgrom), Sech, Ucu, Ushut, Zumu. Alternate names: PRASUN, VERUNI, PARUN, WASI-VERI, VERON, VEROU. Dialects: UPPER WASI-WERI, CENTRAL PRASUN, LOWER PRASUN (USHUT). Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Nuristani. More information.

SANGLECHI-ISHKASHIMI [SGL] 2,000 in Afghanistan. Sanglech Valley, Ishkashim area. Ishkashimi spoken in 17 villages; Sanglechi in 2. Dialects: ZEBAK (ZEBAKI), SANGLECHI, ISHKASHIMI (ISHKASHMI, ISHKASHIM, ESHKASHIMI). Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Eastern, Southeastern, Pamir. More information.

SAVI [SDG] 3,000 (1983) or several thousand (1992). Population total both countries 3,000. Alternate names: SAWI, SAUJI, SAU. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Shina. More information.

SHUGHNI [SGH] 20,000 in Afghanistan (1994 GMI). Both sides of Afghan-Tajikistan border, some 30 miles north of Ishkashim, Pamir Mts. Dialects: ROSHANI (RUSHANI, RUSHAN, OROSHANI), SHUGHNI (SHUGNI, SHIGHNI, SHUGHNANI, SHUGAN, KHUGNI, KUSHANI, SAIGHANI, GHORANI), BARTANGI (BARTANG), OROSHOR (OROSHORI). Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Eastern, Southeastern, Pamir, Shugni-Yazgulami. More information.

SHUMASHTI [SMS] 1,000 (1994). Chitral frontier, 60 miles up the Kunar River from Gawar-Bati, on the west side, Darrai Mazar Valley. Shumast village has two languages; this Dardic Kunar language, and a Northeast Pashayi dialect. Alternate names: SHUMASHT. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kunar. More information.

TANGSHEWI [TNF] 10,000 (1994). East of Darwazi on the Amu Darya, far northeast of Badakhshan. May also be in Turkmenistan. Alternate names: TANGSHURI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Unclassified. More information.

TIRAHI A few speakers out of possibly 5,000 members in the ethnic group. Southeast of Jalalabad, and west of the Khyber Pass; village of Nangarhar. Not in Pakistan. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kohistani. Nearly extinct. More information.

TREGAMI 1,000 (1994). Nuristan, villages of Katar and Gambir. Alternate names: TRIGAMI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Nuristani. More information.

TURKMEN [TCK] 500,000 in Afghanistan (1995). Along the border of Turkmenistan, especially the border regions of Fariab and Badghis provinces. Some in Andkhoi town and Herat city. Alternate names: TURKOMAN, TRUKMEN, TURKMAN. Dialects: SALOR, TEKE (TEKKE, CHAGATAI, JAGATAI), ERSARI, SARIQ, YOMUT. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Southern, Turkmenian. More information.

UYGHUR [UIG] 3,000 in Afghanistan. Spoken in a few villages in Badakshan and Abi-i-Barik. Also possibly in Iran and Taiwan. Alternate names: UIGHUR, UYGHURI, WIGHOR, UIGHOR, UIGUIR. Dialects: KASHGAR-YARKAND (YARKANDI), TARANCHI. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Eastern. More information.

UZBEK, SOUTHERN [UZS] 1,403,000 or 9% of population in Afghanistan (1991 WA). Population total all countries 1,455,000 or more. Alternate names: UZBEKI, USBEKI, UZBAK. Classification: Altaic, Turkic, Eastern. More information.

WAIGALI [WBK] 8,000 to 10,000 (1974 Jones). Southeast Nuristan, north of Pech in central Kunar Province. Varjan is in north Waigal Valley, villages of Waigal, Zonchigal, Jamach, Ameshdesh, and eastward in the Veligal Valley and villages there. Chima-Nishey is in villages in the lower valley. Alternate names: WAIGELI, WAIGALA, ZHONJIGALI, SUKI, WAI-ALA, WAI, KALASHA-ALA. Dialects: VARJAN, CHIMA-NISHEY. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Nuristani. More information.

WAKHI [WBL] 7,000 in Afghanistan (1979 estimate). East of Ishkashim, Pamir Mts., in 64 villages on the left bank of the Panj River in the Wakhan Corridor, as far as Sarhad village (about 73E). Center is Khandud. Most have scattered as refugees in Afghanistan or Pakistan. Alternate names: WAKHANI, WAKHIGI, VAKHAN, KHIK, GUHJALI. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Iranian, Eastern, Southeastern, Pamir. More information.

WARDUJI [WRD] 5,000 (1994). Werdoge River area west of Ishkashim, northeast Afghanistan. Classification: Unclassified. More information.

WOTAPURI-KATARQALAI [WSV] 2,000 (1994). South of Waigali area in Nuristan in the towns of Wotapuri and Katarqalai. Classification: Indo-European, Indo-Iranian, Indo-Aryan, Northwestern zone, Dardic, Kohistani. More information.


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