SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : WAR on Terror. Will it engulf the Entire Middle East? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Thomas M. who wrote (187)11/12/2001 12:49:31 PM
From: Machaon  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 32591
 
<< Israel has never been attacked. Can you name a single instance? >>

You mean, Israel has never been attacked, except for four Arab wars against them, and daily terrorist attacks against them, don't you? That is, unless you like to rewrite history to make your side look cleaner and more civilized. That will be the day! <g>

I think that the Arab nations should turn over control of half of their oil reserves to Israel. The oil would then be used to benefit all mankind, and not just to enrich a few greedy sheiks, while the rest of the Arab people go hungry and angry.



To: Thomas M. who wrote (187)11/12/2001 1:23:52 PM
From: Scoobah  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 32591
 
Robert,

Thomas M in his profile shows an age of 29, indicating if true a birth year of 1971, therefore he was an infant during the Arab Oil embargo of 1973, which was the Saudi's and Iraqi's tool to get the US to intervene.

it is doubtful if he even knows about it, and he wasnt even alive during the unprovoked 1967 attack on Israel from Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, all under the oversight of the UN who expected to see Israel defeated in days,

and they almost were.

Tom also wouldnt know that Israel was attacked by the Arabs in 1948 after being disarmed by the British, who left them to the slaughter.

As Thomas M receives enlightenment, let's understand that his lack of education is probably the issue here, that and Arab propaganda that he reads as fact.

Also, it is important to point our that the 1948 War of Independence occured after the UN established the Jewish state, and the Arab's rejected the will of the international community.

Finally, the War of Independence on 1948 was fought with kalishnikof's from Czeckoslovakia, and not US weapons.

US weapons didnt come to the region until the 70's when Russia was arming Egypt for another rout.



To: Thomas M. who wrote (187)11/13/2001 12:11:49 AM
From: Scoobah  Respond to of 32591
 
Why this hatred?

Two deviant daughters came forth from Judaism but left the fold to conquer the world: Christianity and Islam. Both hate their mother, and both fight each other.

Judaism integrates the qualities of strict justice and mercy, in harmony and in proper measure. Christianity took only the quality of mercy while Islam took the quality of strict justice.

The Moslems see with jealousy how the culture based on Christian mercy succeeds in gaining control over the world. Let everyone come and benefit from the cornucopia open to all -- to everyone we proffer the other cheek, and the whole body, in fact. Come and take your part in the wealth, come and enter the gates of the World Trade Center. We aren't conquering you with the sword, but with gold.

"Why are they bringing their wars here?", a soot-covered broker shouted into a CNN reporter's microphone. He didn't understand that he was conquering, not territories, but the opposing culture, straight from here -- from the twin towers.

But every Moslem child understands it clearly. What the political commentators and senators in the US fail to realize is crystal clear to the other half of the world. America is not at war with a single individual --Bin Laden, but with every child that will be born tomorrow in Cairo, Amman, Beirut, Gaza and, if he is a Moslem, even in New Jersey.

America will never admit that it is involved in a war of cultures, in fact in a religious war. Such an admission implies that, as in the case of Israel, American values are fundamentally at question. They are not as universal as Americans would like to believe. The happiness they pursue in the name of all humanity may be happiness for a specific group based on Christianity, but it means hell for another group that is just as large.

It is entirely possible that the balance has changed and the other half of the world is now beginning to realize its aspirations for happiness (and woe to such a culture immersed in rivers of blood). America will never admit it, and consequently will be unable to fight back. Just like the Israelis. They fail to identify the enemy. They seek the terrorists just as Sharon is pursuing individual terrorists. They are pursuing the wasps instead of destroying the nest, because they are afraid of the nest. They are afraid of a real confrontation between their values and those of Islam.

They want a coalition with moderate Arab countries. They have to prove that neither Islam nor the Arabs, but terrorism, is their enemy. The situation is so ludicrous that even Arafat is being wooed -- Arafat, who invented hijacking, Arafat, the father of 20th century terrorism. They want to make a coalition with him, if only to avoid facing reality.

They will in fact catch the wasps. Bin Laden doesn't stand a chance. He won't be able to escape the power of the US. And then what? Today every Arab child wants to be a Shahid, a martyr for Islam. Bin Laden will enter the pantheon of the Shahids, but another million are waiting their turn, and they are impatient. America is waging a physical war against a metaphysical enemy. They are incapable of understanding what we in Israel witness every day -- overjoyed parents of suicide bombers.

In the coming months, we will see a lot of military planes take off and land. We will see destroyers and missiles, and millions of tons of TNT exploding in the Iraqi desert and in Afghanistani caves. They will kill thousands of innocent people, and in the end America will lose -- because it failed to identify the true enemy.

The previous campaign was code-named Desert Storm, and the current one will be called Infinite Justice, but this justice has no aim, and will therefore actually lack justice. If only America had the clairvoyance and the moral fortitude to face up to reality, America could win easily, without a coalition, without deploying armies, and without senseless killings.

But America is too busy deceiving itself. Not only the politicians, but everyone in the population. An interesting phenomena I noticed, was the self-imposed censorship of the American media. I sat and watched as the drama unfolded live on television. In the first hour, there were live broadcasts from Ramallah and Shechem, in which the "Palestinian" masses could be seen rejoicing over the massacre in Manhattan. I was pleased to see the pictures broadcast for all to see. Suddenly the reports ceased as if they had never happened. After the first hour, I didn't see them again. I don’t believe that the American administration contacted the media networks and told them what to screen. This happened naturally: don’t show the American people a reality that conflicts with its fundamental values. "We shall preserve the American way of life and win" was the message.

There was no longer any footage from Ramallah or from anywhere else. Instead, there began to appear an endless stream of interviews with American professors having Arab names and speaking with Arabic accents. The message was this: here is an American called Ahmed, who is a Moslem, but who is also an American.

"I vehemently condemn this attack", said a professor. "You have to realize that the majority of Arabs are not like these despicable terrorists. Most of them think like I do, but…" added the professor in a knowledgeable manner, "when you aid the Israeli occupation of Palestine, you cause more Arabs to be on the side of the terrorists rather than on my side".

Hence Israel is out of the coalition. Even the crack rescue unit from Israel that was ready to come and help was courteously sent back to its base. Israel is the mistress that must be hidden, and Arafat, the king of terrorism, is the legitimate wife, who is sought after.

Better this way, since at the end of the day, America is not truly Israel's ally -- but we'll leave that issue for another time.

The day after the attack, a wealthy American acquaintance approached me and asked for my comments on the situation. I told him what I thought, and he then surprised me by making an offer that couldn't be refused: "I am ready to pay for a full-page ad in the New York Times". "I want you to compose the ad" he said. I didn't want to do it, because America's war isn't my war, and because I had hoped that this dear Jew would direct his financial resources to far more important endeavors in which we are engaged in Eretz Israel. But the man persisted, so I composed the following quick draft:

IT IS A CULTURAL/ RELIGIOUS WAR.

We can kill a million Bin Ladens, but they will continue to celebrate.
[Photo of Arabs celebrating in the streets.]

They have destroyed our symbols.
[Photo of the twin towers going up in flames]

We must destroy their symbols.
[Photos of the El-Aksa mosque on the Temple Mount, and the Kaba building in Mecca.]

Shocked?

Americans don't do such things?

Right.

Therefore, America will continue to be destroyed until you understand.

My friend was astonished. "But they will start a religious war!", he exclaimed. "Can you imagine what acts of vengeance will result from this?"

"And what have you suffered just now?", I asked him. "Do you think that they only killed nearly ten thousand people because at the moment they don't hate you so much?"

"This is a religious war", I explained to him. "They aren't afraid to die. They have sanctified death, they die with the name of Allah on their lips, and seventy virgins are waiting for them in Paradise. You don't frighten them with your bombs. At best, you'll turn them into Shahids. They have directed their attack against your god. You have no alternative, but to direct your attack against theirs. When you destroy their god, they will become powerless and come back down to this world. They will suddenly be frightened by the sound of footsteps, and by the prick of a pin. They will know that not only they understand your language, but you understand theirs, and you are fighting them according to their own rules".

"Think about it", I added. "How many people are you going to kill in vain, and how easy it would be to win this war without killing anyone".

My friend was convinced, but in the end decided not to run the ad.

I am worried by what is to come. Since America is going to lose, tremendous frustration is going to build up in the American population. The twin towers will only be the beginning. The success of the terrorist attack will create an unconquerable desire among every Arab child to claim his share of martyrdom. Terrorist attacks will increase, and America won't have an answer.

The Arab professor's words of incitement will then start ringing true to Americans ears: Israel is the problem and by extension so are the Jews.

There won't be large-scale pogroms in America, perhaps small ones, but not the kind we became accustomed to in Europe. After all, there is something too good about the American people that won't allow it. But how will a Jew show his face in the street when every American is convinced that he has lost his job, his property, and that his relatives are being killed in terrorist attacks and in an endless war, all because of the Jews?

My return trip to Israel was no picnic. I sat at the airport in uncertainty for nearly 24 hours with thousands of others, until I managed to get onboard one of the flights of El Al's air shuttle returning the stranded Israelis home.

"If this is the line of Israeli visitors wanting to go home", I thought to myself, "how long will the line be when American Jews rush to come home to Israel?"

I always kneel and kiss the ground when I return home.

Our holy land had never received as warm a kiss from me as it did this time



To: Thomas M. who wrote (187)11/13/2001 12:20:04 AM
From: Scoobah  Respond to of 32591
 
Are Most Moslems anti-Terror?, by Steven Plaut

Since the jihad against the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, US officials and civic leaders have been wringing their hands over the "racist stereotyping" of Moslems, over assaults on Moslems in US cities, and insisting over and over that the "vast majority of Moslems" oppose terrorism and violence, that Islam is the religion of peace. Even the asslibs (assimilationists liberals) amongst US Jews have been spending more time on denouncing the "stereotyping of Moslems" and protecting Arab civil rights than on anything else. Now let us be clear. Yes the word "Islam" comes from Salaam or peace. Yes there are some Moslems who have consistently opposed violence and terror, although they are a small minority. The vast majority of Moslems have condoned and endorsed terrorist violence, especially when directed against Jewish children and civilians.

And yes, for centuries Islamic civilization was the most advanced and most tolerant and most enlightened on the planet. Islamic civilization preserved the ancient Classical Greek and Roman learning, invented algebra and chemistry, led the world of scholarship. The great tragedy of Islam is that this brilliant civilization of the seventh through fifteenth centuries has long ago degenerated into savage barbarism, where violence is commonly worshipped. Where - aside from Turkey - no Moslem country has embraced democracy or freedom or tolerance or diversity.

One of the unchallenged axioms of American civic religion is that each and every group of people on earth must consist of an "overwhelmingly vast majority of decent hard-working honest people who want peace and are tolerant and freedom-loving and anti-violence."

It is an unchallengeable presumption of this theology that "vast majorities" of not only each and every racial/religious/ethnic group may
be so described, but even vast majorities of each and any subgroup within society. Hence we even sometimes hear assertions that the vast majority of prisoners, prostitutes, drug users, gang members, etc. are also decent, honest, peace-loving, honorable people.

The one imponderable in American civic theology is the idea that somewhere out there someplace there just might be is a group of people, the majority of whom are NOT peace-loving or honest or tolerant. This belief in universal peacefulness in the minds of Americans is the main obstacle to Americans ever understanding the Middle East. The simple fact of the matter is that the overwhelmingly vast majority of Arabs, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of Moslems, are not peace-loving and are not
opposed to violence.

Noting this could not be more timely. Commentator after commentator among the Western media discuss the reactions in the Moslem world to the US atrocities with self-righteous fawning observation that Islam is a religion of peace, that the terrorists are about as representative of true Islam as the IRA bombers are of Christianity, or as white supremicists are of Christianity. Each commentator goes out of his way to emphasize how we all understand that the vast majority of Moslems oppose terrorism and violence.

The only problem with this is that it is simply false and empirically disprovable. It is wishful thinking. The vast majority of Germans
supported Hitler, supported wars of aggression, and supported genocide. The vast majorities of Hutus and Tutsis support massacres of the other. Similarly, the vast majority of Arabs support terror and violence and war. They do not see anything wrong with the blowing up of hundreds of civilians in an Embassy of the United States or in an office building of Argentinian Jews. They see any act of force taken against the perpetrators of such things to be itself a crime. (This is not to say that the vast majority of each and every subgroup of Moslems support such barbarism; the Turks and Indonesian-Malays come to mind as possible exceptions.)

True, Islam is a religion of peace and its very name derives from salaam - peace. But it is a religion of peace with other Moslems and for non-Moslems living under the clear domination of Moslems. True also, the vast majority of Moslems do not personally engage in violence and terror in their daily lives. The vast majority of Germans did not take personal part in the Holocaust. Indeed, as a blanket statement regarding Arabs in Israel, I would say that most Arabs behave in a far more polite daily manner than Jews, exhibiting on average far better manners and more consideration than do Jewish Israelis. But of course that is hardly the point.

The vast majority of Moslems support the random and indicriminate use of terror and violence against Jews and against Americans. The reactions of Moslems everywhere are there on the TV screens for all to see and will be more unambiguously pro-terror the moment the US begins to attack Afghanistan and/or Iraq. Arab political thought is fundamentally Orwellian: murder is peace, prevention of murder or
retaliation for murder is terror. Moslems are outraged by events in the Balkans because Moslems are being massacred; if Bosnians and Albanians were instead massacring Serbs they would have trouble hiding their approval and delight.

We have known for decades that the vast majority of Moslems also approve of Palestinian atrocities and bombings directly against Jews. There is no act of savagery directed against Israelis or Jews of which they will not approve by enormous majorities, and no act of defense by Israel that they will legitimize.

Public opinion polls are not conducted in most Moslem countries, but if they were they would no doubt reflect this popular approval. Polls ARE conducted among Palestinians and they show without exception that Palestinians approve of bombings and suicide bombs and atrocities committed against Jews, by enormous majorities. Their approval rates have generally increased with each Israeli concession to them under Oslo. The vast majority of Palestinians support Saddam Hussein. The vast majority probably support Bin Laden and the bombings of the Americans. The vast majority would approve if Iran or Iraq dumped chemical weapons or nerve gas on Tel Aviv. These are the people with whom Oslo is supposed to produce peace.

Oh, you might object, but Arafat has DENOUNCED Bin laden and even endorsed the US bombings in Sudan and Afghanistan. Well, yes he did, no doubt hoping thus to get the US to force Israel to make a few more concessions as quid pro quo, and he was no doubt as sincere as were the IRA folks who denounced the bombing of Omagh. But the Palestinian fascist hordes, taking their signals from the PLO, know he is posturing and winking and these folks support Bin Laden by overwhelming majorities.

All this week there have been massive anti-American marches by the Palestinian brownshirts. US flags have been burned throughout the Palestinian zones.

Now the entire Oslo "peace process" is based on the naive American civic dogma, adopted by Israeli politicians, holding that the vast majority of Palestinians want peace with Israel. They do not. Unless of course one means the sort of peace that prevailed and prevails in traditional Islamic societies, where the non-Moslems live as low-profile minorities with no political sovereignty. (The vast majority of Germans, one supposes, would have favored peace in 1940 if they could get it at Hitler's terms.)

The vast majority of Palestinians want to see Israel destroyed, and support all violence against Jews. Once Israel is destroyed and large portions of its population are killed or dispersed, no doubt the remainder will be permitted to live under conditions resembling those of the Copts in Egypt or the Armenians and Bahais in Iran. That is the only peace Arabs want by majorities.

Sweeney was the name of an Irish king who believed he was a bird and spent his life in treetops. (Really.) The Oslo "peace process" is the direct function of the Sweeneyization of the political establishment of Israel. Peres Sweeney and Beilin Sweeney adopted the wishful thinking of American civic religion, presumed that the vast majority of Palestinians prefer peace and prosperity to continuing war and violence. They took it as axiomatic that Palestinians would compromise over land and sovereignty because after all THEY were willing to do so. Their evidence that Palestinians would place peace above land is that Jews do so. Their belief that economic prosperity would interest Palestinians more so than irredentist aggression and terror is that decent honorable people anywhere should feel this way. In short, Oslo is the godchild of King Sweeney taking over the Israeli Labor Party, Meretz, and even swaths of the Likud.

These Sweeney weenies are the same people who refuse to even ponder the possibility that the vast majorities of Palestinians, other Arabs, and Moslems are not at all peace-seeking (at least not when it comes to Israel and the US), are not anti-violence, are not anti-terror. In other words, Oslo is based upon a fundamental denial of empirical reality. Like the old Peter and Gordon song from the 60's, it is based upon the Sweeneyish assertion that "I don't care what they say I won't stay in a world without love." And what happens to Sweeneys who live in unlit corners of the earth without love? They pretend to be birds and rise above such mundane things
as reality to live in treetops of utopian dreams. Leaving the rest of us to face terror, murder, violence, Arab fascism, and threats of genocidal extermination.



To: Thomas M. who wrote (187)11/13/2001 12:27:44 AM
From: Scoobah  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 32591
 
1- It is important to remember that the CIA trained and financed Bin Laden's friends in Afghanistan and blind Islamic cleric Omar Abdul Rahman presently sitting out prison terms for his role in the previous World Trade Center terror attack of 1993. The United States helped these bands of terrorists into the United States, some with false papers, so that they could establish a recruiting center, known as the Al Kifah Refugee Center, in order to help in the struggle against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

El Sayed Nosair, one of the ringleaders who later assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahane was one of these operatives that helped run the Islamic Recruiting Center in Brooklyn that trained and sent many terrorists to Afghanistan. Some of these terrorists remained in the U.S. Some returned. Some participated in the Kahane assassination in 1990 and the World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

For all we know, some participated in last week's horror.

While everyone is talking about Bin Laden we are missing the point. Every American or Israeli attempt that has ever been made to court moderate Islamic sectors or to appease them has only backfired in the most horrific way. Israel helped finance and create the Hizbullah and the Hamas to weaken the PLO, only to learn that they would be even more deadly. The U.S. created these monsters in Afghanistan. The results we all now see.

The U.S. and Israel are making the same foolish error again. Now, Israel places their faith in Arafat to dismantle the "radicals", and the U.S. continues to rely on the moderate state of Pakistan, when Pakistan is the only state to recognize the Taliban regime that harbors Bin Laden.

Similarly, the U.S. continues to place their faith in various so-called Arab moderate states. Will Syria, a state sponsor of terrorism, once again be a part of the U.S. coalition? Relying on Moslem or Arab states or terrorist factions to put down other states and factions will only backfire, once again.

Terror is terror and Islamic fundamentalism continues to fuel the fires of hatred and suicide bombers in Tel Aviv and in New York. There is no difference between Arafat and his Palestinian Authority TV encouraging suicide bombers and brainwashing young to follow the example of the murderous martyrs, or Bin Laden preaching his hate in Afghanistan. There can be no partnership with these barbarians. Anything we do with them or teach them will be used against forces of good and innocent people in the
future.