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Strategies & Market Trends : Gorilla and King Portfolio Candidates -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (48881)11/14/2001 10:09:32 AM
From: slacker711  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 54805
 
the PSR is an important ratio for this purpose (as you can't give a PE to negative earnings), so the fact that MU has a PSR close to 9 times what it did in 1990 seems far from irrelevant (even though MU is not a gorilla-type stock).

I just did a quick scan of MU using Yahoo....

biz.yahoo.com

It looks like they expect $500 million of revenue in the current quarter....and they have a market cap of $17 Billion. So they have a PSR of about 8.5. It seems outrageous, in light of the fact, that they had a PSR of 1 in 1990. It seems that you are implying a correct valuation for Micron would be about 3.35

Of course, the part of the equation that is left out, is the fact that MU is predicted to earn $1.42 in '03. The valuation which you seem to want on Micron would allow you to buy it at 2.4x earnings that are only two years out.

Slacker



To: Wyätt Gwyön who wrote (48881)11/14/2001 10:49:16 AM
From: Bruce Brown  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 54805
 
it seems to me that you are barking up the wrong tree. instead of looking for the MSFT of the 1930s to justify the valuations of all US large-growth stocks today, why don't you look at the aggregate PSR of the market now vs. then. sure, MSFT is exceptional, but despite the exceptionalness of MSFT, the Nasdaq as a whole has negative earnings.

First of all, I wasn't barking. I only do that when I sing Verdi and the orchestra plays to dang loud. I was not trying to justify valuations of all US large-growth stocks today. I was simply trying to point the unique lock that Microsoft has brought to the table.

the Nasdaq as a whole has negative earnings

Good thing I'm not invested in the Nasdaq as a whole.

the idea behind mentioning MU was not to suggest it is a gorilla stock, but to offer one example of how supposed "trough" valuations of a cyclical IT co have changed between 1990 and today.

Yes, I know. The argument has been going on for many months now in terms of whether or not trough valuations in 2001 or 2002 will reach similar multiples that were reached during the previous recession or other bear market lows. However one feels about that scenario playing out, the market will tell us. The same argmument you apply to Micron could also be applied to all the chip equipment makers and the semiconductor industry.

I don't think the market in the previous recession of 1990-1991 really knew what was coming in terms of the years that followed of growth in the PC industry and the fuel that the Internet added to increasing consumer demand for a personal computer. Had they really known what was coming, do you think the multiple of Micron would have reached the trough that it did reach in that recession? So now we are faced with the dilemma that too many "know" something might be coming in the future to dump all category leaders regardless of the cost to the point that could set up valuations which would reach a point that they would launch a stealth bull market. On the other side of the coin, the market seems to be doing something in the past two months that may or may not point to a classic bull run 4 - 6 months prior to the economy reaching its full bottom. That sets up the possibility of many things playing out going forward depending on whether or not the market has it right this time around or it is just another glimmer of hope only to crush those hopes. Regardless of that, I understand the dilemma of current valuations vs. previous valuations reached in the trough periods.

this is where it's important to distinguish between "good business" and "good investment". all else being equal, one prefers a good business. but usually a good business is priced as such (expensively), reflecting a lower cost of capital in the form of lower expected returns. in contrast, a business with "troubles" has a higher cost of capital which is typically reflected in higher expected returns. this difference is key to understanding why value stocks have historically outperformed growth stocks. it's not that they're better businesses--often, it's the opposite--but rather, even a poor business can possibly provide a good return at the right price, while even a good business can possibly provide a bad return at the wrong price.

You seem to assume and predict that good business in technology will not make a good investment. There are also plenty of technology companies available where "trouble" abounds. Yet, apply the gorilla game criteria to a technology company that is in "trouble". Is that the kind of business one would want to invest in? Sure, turn around stories in chimps and gorillas may be wise decisions. However, if a discontinuous innovation has the threat of wiping out a Xerox or a Polaroid or some other example - no thank you. The entire premise of the book is to focus in on the good business that is not mired in 'trouble' and controls their niche. I don't recommend an investor fill their portfolio only with large cap, successful good business models. I know well what the returns are for an Intel over the past decade compared to an up and coming small or mid cap that went through the growth phase.

You continue to mention 'value investing'. Gorilla gaming is not value investing. I find it difficult to imagine that value investing - over time - has outperformed Intel, Cisco, Microsoft, Oracle, Siebel, etc... from their early days. Yes, periods of outperformance, but in aggregate from start to finish I cannot imagine outperformance of those companies that rose in a needed niche that addressed a fix. There will be others as well and they too will never appear to be a 'value stock'.

BB