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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: unclewest who wrote (10464)	11/15/2001 11:25:27 AM
From: Poet	Respond to of 281500

Sorry if you feel misrepresented. It's the impression I've gotten from you. i guess this means you agree that we should just kill all those pi$$ant peasants over there. after all who would miss them? and we have lots of American soldiers just waiting around for orders to go murder some prisoners You didn't read the first part of my post to Bald Eagle. I agree with your point here. they are accepting enlistment applications from women too. Are you using the enlistment thing on me now? LOL! They'll love a middle-aged poet in their midst. No thank you, but I appreciate your consistency.

To: unclewest who wrote (10464)	11/15/2001 12:25:04 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

i have never claimed to be a military expert...never. And anyone who claims to be an expert on military affairs is someone who's comments should be taken with a grain of salt, and/or certainly comtrasted to other informed and logical opinions. As you well know Unclewest, given your personal experience, the "science" of military operations is only as sounds as the assessment of the chaotic variables upon which its conclusions and calculations are based. In fact the science of war, like life itself, eventually breaks down to it's most chaotic micro-elements, none of which can be controlled, and some of which can have a drastic impact. In sum... we can lay out the intended strategy, but as the oft quoted maxim goes, "no plan survives its first contact with the enemy". There's another quote I'm particularly found of. It was apparently quoted from a captured German general in WWII. "The reason the Americans do so well in wartime, is because war is chaos, and the American army practices chaos on a daily basis"... It's fun to sit here and test ourselves and our knowledge to see if we really understand the analysis being utilized by the US and other parties in this conflict (including Bin Laden). But I'm under no illusions with regard to my own personal "expertise".. I don't have all the data, both public and secret, available to the commaders on the ground. And I'm not having to deal with "fog of war" facing these commanders. I would opine that, over all, we've been far more successful than even our own folks had planned on.. Such is the fluidity and chaos of war. In fact, I can only think of one issue that still confuses me, and that with regard to how late the JSTARS were deployed. I would have had those puppies flying missions immediately, tracking vehicle traffic around Afghanistan night and day. And I would also subscribe to Hersh's account of the raid on Omar's residence to a certain extent, although I'm not sure if his casualty figures are accurate.. But I think you and I would agree Unclewest that it's not how to employ Delta Force folks.. It should have been primarily a Ranger/Airborne operation. Very similar to how the SEALs were misused storming Patilla airfield in Panama during Operations "Just Because".. err.. Just Cause... :0) Finally, we often see we civilians (even prior-military) often showing more bloodlust than our troops. It's much easier for US to say we're "willing to accept casualties" because we so large a nation that most of us won't know the victims. But those commanders who are responsible for safeguarding their personnel, while accomplishing the mission, feel far less willing to take casualities solely to please the PR machine. Give them a mission that matters and counts, and I'm sure they will be willing to risk their lives and those of their soldiers. Hawk