TO ALL:
There goes another $200! Mr. Alsuezi has blocked me yet once again. For me $1000 is the max I am willing to spend on this venture, so this will be my last registration!
A few commenst to Mr. Alsuezi. These have been expressed well by Mr. Cummings on this thread and I am just going to re-state them here from his posts.
Disagreement is the hallmark of an open mind, open society, and open thinkers. Free speech is something which should be cherished, nurtured and protected.
Muslims need to openly examine why it is that so many of their followers are going on crusades against humanity, and willing to die in order to kill innocent women and children. There is something profoundly influencing them. They say it is the Holy book of the Quran which is doing it.
Some here are now questioning the words of that book and trying to get answers toward the wisdom of its passages, and understand how those passages could be interpreted to mean just what their fanatical followers say it means. The thread starter has struggled to answer those questions, and in many cases, has been evasive and not forthcoming.
He appears to be an intelligent well spoken peace loving Muslim. Who is having an extremely difficult time giving us a better understanding of these same passages in the Quran. But, what's even more disturbing is he has elected to silence many of those who have the gall to ask the question to begin with. How does silencing those who have gone out of the way to read, write and come to grips with this issue, help the cause of Muslim followers give us a better understanding of their religion?
What I sense underlying the reactions I've read here, is a belief that critical examination of the Quran is really not allowed. That won't go over well with Americans who read and visit this thread. We love to openly disagree, and admire those who are willing to allow free expression to flow as freely as the ideas contained within them.
Muslims should first understand that, before they attempt to give us a better understanding of their faith.
Mr. Alsuezi, you have been bothered by the fact as why I keep asking you the same questions and you have characterized as "dwelling" on those same questions and issues. The reason is because you have continued to provide unreasonable (and at best evasive) answers, and at the same time you expect us (or at least me) to accept your evasive answers as facts, and want to move on. But then that goes against the very reason you started this thread, and I am going to quote you from your introduction post (the very first line of it) which state:
"I am creating this thread to serve as a resource for information about Islam and to try to shed some light on some verses in The Holy Qur'an. In particular, verses that have been taken out of context or translated in a twisted manner."
By being evasive, you create more questions and issues about the original questions and issues asked. You then block people from posting (who are trying to ask you the same questions to understand your evasive answers better). How can you then claim this thread to be a place for people to understand what Islam's message is, and (and I quote you again from your introduction post) "to shed some light on some verses in The Holy Qur'an. In particular, verses that have been taken out of context or translated in a twisted manner.
As for your friendly warning of me not calling you a fanatic Moslem, I shall abide, and furthermore I offer you my sincere apologies if I offended you in any way form or shape. I do sincerely mean this. But in my view there is nothing wrong with being fanatic about something. I am fanatically in love with my wife and daughter, and family (i.e. a fanatic family man). I am also fanatically in love with being an American (i.e. a fanatic American). In fact I looked up the word "fanatic" in the Webster dictionary online. Please go to webster.com and type in the word fanatic, Webster then gives you the meaning of the word fanatic. It says:
Main Entry: fa·nat·ic
Pronunciation: f&-'na-tik
Variant(s): or fa·nat·i·cal /-ti-k&l/
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin fanaticus inspired by a deity, frenzied, from fanum temple -- more at FEAST
Date: 1550
: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion <they're fanatic about politics>
- fanatic noun
- fa·nat·i·cal·ly /f&-'na-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb
- fa·nat·i·cal·ness /-k&l-n&s/ noun
What is wrong about being a fanatic Moslem (someone who loves the Islamic faith with so much ”enthusiasm”). When you state that in your post to Mr. Cummings Message 16677692 :
"I only block a person after he / she have demonstrated that he / she is dwelling on either a misunderstanding or an area that we may not be able to see the wisdom in but is part of the Holy Qur'an (like the wife beating issue)… please note that I also have said that time and again, if I do not see the wisdom in it, I can not and am not going to questions God’s wisdom.
This indicates to me that you ”enthusiastically” believe in Islam (as you admit), and that Quran is written by the God, and it expresses what God says - eventhough some verses (such as wife beating) do not make sense, you still are willing to accept them for which you believe it is God who is saying those verses and for example is advising Moslem men to beat their wives if they feel their wives are not obeying them.
But once again I offer my sincere apologies to you if I may have offended you in any form or shape, and if you find being called a fanatic Moslem offensive, I did not mean anything but to express your enthusiasm for the religion.
Lastly Mr. Alsuezi, I want to say that I am going to leave the issues with wife beating alone, and will not mention them for which I think you have provided a somewhat reasonable answer to it (at least from a stand point of the faith is concerned). You have indicated that you believe it is God's wisdom to have advised men to beat the wives under certain situations that they feel the wives are not obeying them. You do not wish to question God's wisdoom and you take the verse as is and will follow it for which it is from God. That goes well with what I expressed before, if the color of a Red Rose, is Red, one has to accept it as is, and one should not paint the color any other way but Red. God created a Red Rose, Red, and that is how it is. We should not ask why God created the Red Rose as Red, and that I can understand.
What remains (from my original set of issues and questions) are the verses on killing and destruction of non-Moslems, for which the answers provided - with all due respect - continue to be evasive. In fact I do not recall you addressing those issues at all. But if you so desire we can pass on those issues as well, and I will not bring them up again. We can characterize those as also matters that involves God's wisdom that we may not understand and should leave it at that.
Therefore I make a deal with you, if you do not block me, I will not discuss the wife beating, and killing of non-Moslems issues anymore for the reasons I expressed above. I can then move on to other areas of Quran and other verses and ask you, and perhaps some light can be shed on some other verses in Quran.
Best Wishes,
Mr. S. Stevenson |
