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Politics : High Tolerance Plasticity -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Telemarker who wrote (10621)11/20/2001 1:08:11 PM
From: William JH  Respond to of 23153
 
Good post Telemarker. Somehow Jeff Bezos comes to mind when I think on our present financial system.



To: Telemarker who wrote (10621)11/20/2001 2:08:47 PM
From: kodiak_bull  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 23153
 
Telemarxist:

You asked, "how much faith does this modern financial system deserve - one that has destroyed the wealth of so many around the World and benefited the consumers of the West??"

I'm not sure I understand the question (or rather the substrate of the question). "How has a modern financial system destroyed the wealth of so many around the World and benefited the consumers of the West?" I'm not sure what the modern financial system is. Is it that governments have the right to issue paper money? Is it the proliferation of stock markets? Is it central banks?

It strikes me that the consumers of the West (let's say the U.S.) have benefited from the flexibility of their economic systems and their penchant toward innovation. These two attributes come in very handy when the measure of wealth evolves from military might (pre-history to, say, 5,000 B.C.) to dominance over agricultural and forest lands (5,000 B.C. to 1500 A.D.) to raw materials (1500 to 1750) to manufacturing and finance (1750 to 1880) to energy and manufacturing (1880 to 1950) to communication & information (1950 to the present).

The non Western "wealth" which you claim has been destroyed has not, in fact, been destroyed. Incredible wealth has been created, and still awaits creation. Wealth creation is not a zero sum game. No, non-western wealth has not been destroyed by the West, nor even by the mere fact that Time Has Moved On. Non-western man can still make spears and hunt heads, go falconing, still sow grain in the Nile Valley, still cut down forests where they are found, still manufacture at the loom and search for energy and attempt to engage in the communication and information revolution. No wealth has been destroyed, but rather devalued. A hunting territory in New Guinea is simply not much of a kingdom anymore, nor is suzerainty over some island archipelago like Samoa. The great kingdoms of the Bible, as Mark Twain noted, are scarcely counties in our smaller states.

Let's take a British lord, with a 10,000 acre estate in Northumberland. Twas a time when the lord was a wealthy man, with 200 tenants on his land, living in huts, 15 or so servants in the house, including a young maid or two brought in from some impoverished town, and ready for the rogering. Milord drank French plonk and feasted on venison his dogs helped him hunt down, prepared and served by a gaggle of servants. He lived large. He spent his winters in London. Now, the same lord gets no living from his agriculture, well, not much, and has to rent the house (or sell his title) just to scrape by. Who destroyed Milord's wealth? Was it the West (whatever that is)? Was it fiat money?

Who destroyed Japan's storied wealth from the 1980's? Was it the West? Methinks not. The Japanese (Japan, Inc. aka Japan As Number One) decided that their consumers could subsidize their great companies' purchase of world market share. Now, with the Japanese economy in the tank for a record 11 straight years, the government wonders why their consumers can't bring them out of it. Answer: you beggared the consumers from 1950-1999, how are they going to bring you out of it?

Let's look at what people are willing to save and spend on: fine houses, cars, airplanes, yachts, luxury space in tall buildings, hobby ranches, designer clothes, fine shoes, silk underwear, ski vacations, computer software, hardware, electronic entertainment. How much was invented, invested in, produced in and marketed from the West? That's right. 100%.

Except for the odd vacation to some exotic place (now, pretty much a bad idea) like the Pyramids of Egypt, or some silk rugs from Persia or one of the 'Stans, what is worth exchanging part of your net worth for that doesn't come from the West?

Gold, sort of a vestigial storehouse of value, based on a fading assumption. Perhaps better (certainly more portable and defendable) than a 10,000 acre estate in Northumberland.

I guess I like the modern financial system, at least the market system, that lets you go long or short, depending on your view.

As for wealth destruction, you've got 9/11. There, for the small input of about $10,000 investment (I ascribe zero value to the lives of the 19 hijackers, their lives were worthless and they knew it, therefore their heinous crime) they destroyed between 80 and 200 Billion Dollars, depending on how you count it. Now, that's wealth destruction.

Regards,

Kb