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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: DOUG H who wrote (204339)	11/21/2001 7:43:47 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

Sorry, but that is a pretty meaningless "scare" piece. First, a variance of 3 percent is statistically insignificant, rather than "morally significant". Second, there is no adequate delineation of what they mean by "the basics". 53% is pretty good, actually, when you consider that only about half of all seniors are in college prep, the rest being vo- tech, business, and general diploma students, assuming that the basics represent good coverage of science in high school. After all, even someone going for a college prep diploma is only required to do three years of science, and has some latitude in which courses are pursued.

To: DOUG H who wrote (204339)	11/21/2001 8:42:42 AM
From: maried.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

The front page of The Boston Globe today applauds Mass. fourth grade students for ranking first in Science in the NAEP and eighth graders who ranked second.( 12th-grade scores have not yet been broken down by states.) The problem in many states and districts is that many teaching science do not have science backgrounds or certification. Rod Paige, US Education Secretary described the 12th-grade decline nationally as "morally significant". I am not sure if the NAEP is given to all students but the MCAS (Mass. exam) is... regardless of their special needs. This, of course, has a great impact on the comparison of scores from one year to the next...and from one district to the next. We, obviously,need certified teachers in each subject..the problem is, finding those people who will give up more lucrative careers to teach! I like the President's push for retired military people to enter teaching as long as they are qualified! Marie

To: DOUG H who wrote (204339)	11/21/2001 6:57:25 PM
From: Walkingshadow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

Hi Doug, I am not at all sure that a 3 point difference is significant. It could well be random fluctuation. Without knowing something about the standard error and 95% confidence interval limits, it is very difficult to say anything at all about a 3 point difference. Furthermore, there's something else to factor in: the difference between the previous test and the present version, keeping in mind that there is a standard error associated with the testing tool itself. That is, the ability of the testing instrument itself to accurately measure the thing it is supposed to measure is always imperfect. If you go to the store and buy two measuring cups, they will not measure out 1 cup of something with equal precision, though they will measure it and argree with one another closely enough for most practical applications. But with tests, that precision and reproducibility in measurement is much less certain. There are many difficulties in test construction such that it is not at all a straightforward task to measure some trait or extent of knowledge and so there is a fairly large amount of uncertainty and error variance. So you have several possible unknowns here that could affect the "3%" in unpredictable ways, and because of these and the probable magnitudes of the error variance associated with them (compared to the 3% measured difference), it could even be that today's HS seniors are better than the previous batch. So, hard to know what to make of the specifics in the results. But you and I agree on the basics: our public school system is a disaster. And whether it is 18% or 20% or even 30%, any way you slice it is completely abysmal and a tragedy. Got a call from Doug (!!), so I headin' for SB tonight.... you in?? T