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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (38383)	11/26/2001 6:59:57 AM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Do you also apply those principles in your approach toward the various factions in Ireland? Sorry, what principles? I've never claimed to be a jingoist, if that's what you mean - but I don't think it is... Do you, for example, think that an English patriot can see that the English are responsible for the IRA bombings in London and elsewhere in England Nope. I'll stretch a point and concede that William of Orange (Dutch, BTW), Cromwell, Henry VII and whoever was Pope in ~1160 and 'gave' Ireland to England share blame for the past occurrences... that's rather old history. It's stretching it incredibly to say that 'the English' (now) are responsible for terrorist murders now - that's a Leninist-style lie used by the IRA. And their apologists, of course. Do you think that ... a true English patriot can support those bombings as appropriate exercises of valid outrage? What? Why? I completely fail to see the point of your argument, if any. Let me give you a little summary, so that you're no longer arguing from ignorance. There are a tiny number (a few hundred) maniacs in Ireland, mainly NI, who believe (against the voted and democratic wishes of the majority in both North and South Ireland) that Ulster should be forcibly reunited with Southern Ireland. About 10% (in the North - about 5% or less in Eire) believe that the island should be reunited politically. About 30% in Ulster, perhaps 50% in Eire (where it isn't really an issue) would like to see union someday, theoretically. The Northern Protestants - 50% Ulster population, whose ancestors were mostly there in 1660 - believe they have a right to stay. About 20% are apparently determinded to die rather than surrender, or rather to see Catholics die. Most of the South, BTW, doesn't want a population exemplified by Ian Paisley anywhere near them. [Paisley makes Falwell seem a rational, moderate liberal]. Both sides attack the police and British military whenever it attempts to block their attempts to murder each other. Any connection with 'English patriotism' is remote, at best. Most would happily see us disown the hellhole. More extreme 'English patriots' would us leave, shoot anyone trying to come over, and deport any remaining Irish in England back there. I see no connection with jingoism in this. Except that an extreme English jingoist would favour rather more drastic action... maybe re-arming the 'Black and Tans', for example (the Protestant paramilitaries who were so vicious towards Catholics that the British sent troops in to protect them, and shut down the Protestant-run Stormont assembly). then leaving. Analagous to arming the Northern Alliance, then leaving, really...