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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (38483)	11/23/2001 8:16:14 PM
From: Jorj X Mckie	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Modern warfare does not require combatants to stand in a line with a bunch of redcoats and be shot at to demonstrate courage. OBL's actions were no more an act of warfare than those of Charles Manson's. The parallels between them are worth considering. I believe that Manson's actions were cowardly and I believe that OBL's were for the very same reasons. -Both used religious fanaticism to manipulate others to do the crimes for them -Both were using the crime under the auspices of instigating a larger conflict (Black vs. White, Islam vs. The World). -The target of the attacks for both were unsuspecting and for all intents and purposes, defenseless civilians. -Neither were present at the actual crimes against the individuals who were harmed. Again, I am not saying that the actual Manson family members who did the crimes were necessarily cowards nor am I saying that about the actual hijackers. But I am saying it very specfically about both Manson and OBL. Do you believe that Manson's crimes were an act of war? If not, how do you differentiate what OBL did that justifies calling his crimes an act of war? Just because OBL insists on calling it an act of war does not mean that we have to buy into his propaganda. And we certainly shouldn't buy into it more than we would buy into that of our own government. Frankly, I find that buying into OBL's propaganda that these terrorist actions were an act of war, gives him far more legitimacy than he deserves. And just to head of a logical next question, the reason that a military response is justified against OBL is that an agency of an actual state prevented this from being handled as a criminal procedure.

To: Lane3 who wrote (38483)	11/24/2001 12:13:33 AM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

>>I would use the words, shameful, cruel, immoral, fanatical, cold-hearted, murderous, outrageous, evil, ghastly, and uncivilized, to describe the attack. I could probably come up with some other disgusting aspects of that act if I thought about it some more. But I don't think the word, cowardly, particularly applies. << The reason that coward applies to bin Laden is because of his method of attack against unarmed, DEFENSELESS civilians. In my opinion it is "doubly" a cowardly act for that reason. Not only were unsuspecting, defenseless human beings slaughtered, he didn't have the "courage" to do the deed himself. And now he is HIDING. And I would agree with you that he is also..shameful, cruel, immoral, fanatical, cold-hearted, murderous, outrageous, evil, ghastly, and uncivilized. And to that add coward.

To: Lane3 who wrote (38483)	11/25/2001 8:35:25 PM
From: Yogizuna	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Hi Karen, To me, OBL will always be a coward plus some of the other negative things you mentioned.... To me, anyone who bombs civilians is cowardly, including for example Germany in WWII against England, or the United States using the atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki against the old Japan.... I am an equal opportunity coward caller. <g> Even though Osama and his ilk want to live in the dark ages relatively speaking and go back to the old ways, they have lost their honor as warriors and displayed themselves as true cowards. In times of war, bravery is displayed by fighting or bombing military targets, and military targets only.... Bin Laden's style of kamikaze bombing is cowardly in every way, and has no honor or bravery in it's mission whatsoever. On the other hand, the Japanese kamikaze pilots who struck or attempted to strike their military targets in WWII were not cowards in my opinion, even though I do not approve of their actions and of course they caused great suffering back then. War is hell and it almost always brings the true cowards out of the proverbial woodwork as it has in this case.