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To: willcousa who wrote (367)	11/26/2001 7:58:24 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 786

WC, What is said in the constitution, declaration of independence and the bill of rights have universal significance. Saying "all people are created equal" is global in nature. It can only be enforceable by the US as it relates to folks who reside within our borders whether citizens or legal immigrants or not. Of course someone who is created equal can still be kicked out of the USA if they are not legal here. One has nothing to do with the other. mike

To: willcousa who wrote (367)	11/26/2001 8:00:56 PM
From: Cary Salsberg	Respond to of 786

RE: "A liberal would say it is arrogant to apply our laws to non-citizens." I think of myself as a liberal. It would only be arrogant if we apply our laws to non-citizens in their own countries.

To: willcousa who wrote (367)	11/26/2001 8:07:15 PM
From: Jerome	Respond to of 786

>>>A liberal would say it is arrogant to apply our laws to non-citizens. <<< Probably true, but at the same time we have tried drug dealers from Columbia and found them guilty in abstencia even when they never have set foot in this country. Remember Noriega?... he was the head of another state and our constitution did not really apply to him ...yet there he sits in an American jail... The constitution is being interpreted in a much broader way than in decades past. It all started with the Monroe doctrine...which expanded US power from the US shores to the Western Hemisphere. Politically, expediency dictates how far to push our laws or our Constitutional rights. I think that this is one of the reasons Bush want there to be Military tribunals. Have you ever witnessed a court martial? I was court marshalled twice while I was in service. (They said I got smart with some officers and the charge was disrespect to an officer in front of the men....do you believe that???)The attitude of the officers during the proceedings was... if Jerome wasn't guilty he wouldn't be here...Its easier to press your uniform without those stripes.... On this matter opinions vary...hope others chip in.. Regards, Jerome

To: willcousa who wrote (367)	11/27/2001 10:15:45 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 786

wc, Point of information. One of the talking head former military guys said last night that the only alternative from going cave to cave to get bin laden would be a small nuke. He said he would use it if only to save one american life. That was a bit extreme to say the least. But again, would we or should we if it saved lets 1000 american lives? As the number moves up the question becomes more pertinent. We had framed the question earlier talking about american domestic casualties. Two months later and we are there and now the real question we face is the strong possibility that bin laden escapes the net. Given the current situation what would you suggest? If i remember correctly you were quicker than i to use them in the original debate. mike