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Biotech / Medical : GUMM - Eliminate the Common Cold -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hank who wrote (4011)	11/28/2001 5:22:06 PM
From: Mike M	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 5582

Sure Hank, I'm going to waste my time convincing you of the science of this product. The world is full of idiots walking around with their eyes closed, pleading "show me". Sorry old boy who could help you or, better yet, who would want to? Some things we know empirically, Hank. I did my own scientific study. It has worked for me dozens of times. I buy the product. I have recommended it to any number of people. It works for many of them. They buy it again and again. It doesn't work for you...who gives a flying flip...Don't buy it! I know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than you do. I use it. It doesn't just work "some of the time" for me when I have a cold, it works "all of the time". If you don't like that answer Hank....Tough sh*t.

To: Hank who wrote (4011)	11/28/2001 11:17:19 PM
From: DanZ	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 5582

Personally I don't believe that Zicam is effective against every strain of rhinovirus. I believe that it is effective against the most commonly occurring rhinoviruses. That is why I believe that Dr. Hirt's study showed 75% efficacy and Dr. Turner's showed little efficacy. That is why I believe that Zicam works most of the time but not all the time. Dr. Hirt didn't inject subjects with a known rhinovirus. The subjects were evaluated by a doctor and diagnosed with a cold because they exhibited symptoms of the common cold. The likelihood that they didn't have a cold is small, although it does exist. This is no different from going to the doctor with cold symptoms and the doctor diagnosing a cold. He doesn't have to evaluate your nasal droppings under an electron microscope to determine that you have a cold. I understand the objection to conducting a clinical study in this manner, but it is an acceptable protocol that has been used by others before Gum Tech. Dr. Turner infected subjects with two known rhinoviruses, RV23 and RV39 to be precise. Those two strains of rhinovirus were used in previous clinical studies involving zinc and echinacea, and failed to show efficacy in the studies that I found. However, zinc had consistent efficacy against other serotypes of rhinovirus, at least in the studies that I found. It would be interesting to know the percentage of naturally occurring colds that are caused by each serotype of rhinovirus, although I doubt anyone has that information. If that data were known, one could see if the most common strains are the ones that zinc has been shown to be effective against, and if the strains that zinc has been shown to be ineffective against occur more rarely. That could explain the results of previous clinical studies with zinc. You can't dismiss the results of Dr. Hirt's study just because you don't like the protocol or because you like Dr. Turner's protocol better. One can criticize Dr. Turner's protocol because he apparently selected two serotypes that were used in previous zinc trials that failed. If the strains that he used rarely occur in nature and the strains that Zicam is effective against are more common, it would not be correct to conclude that Zicam doesn't work. I have often said that it would be interesting to know without a doubt why Zicam works and under what conditions. Dr. Turner even alluded to this in his conclusion, writing "If additional studies of zinc treatment of the common cold are to be done, they might be more productively directed at testing specific hypotheses for a proposed mechanism of action." As I wrote on Yahoo, Dr. Turner's study simply concluded that Zicam isn't effective against RV23 and RV39. He didn't conclude that Zicam isn't effective against any common cold virus. Dr. Hirt's study concluded that Zicam is effective against naturally occurring colds. You can dismiss those results if you want but you haven't articulated a valid reason for doing so.