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Gold/Mining/Energy : Precious and Base Metal Investing -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: russwinter who wrote (669)	11/28/2001 11:09:22 PM
From: Bruce Robbins	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39344

ENE perspective from Prudent Bear: This is just one big mess. I called this another Long Term Capital a couple months ago, and it appears to be hitting the stage that LTCM never made it to: a total collapse. The problem is (as was the case with LTCM) if a big derivative player goes down, then uncertainty is created around the whole system since nobody knows whose “promises” (which is all derivatives are) are good and whose aren’t. It’s like a house of cards (for lack of a better description.) All the cards lean on each other and are fine until you remove one, and that causes a chain reaction collapse of the whole structure. There’s no way to know what ENE’s positions are or how or who it will affect but this is no small player. With 23 billion in debt and being the largest energy market maker out there (they have a metals arm in London and make markets in other commodities as well), this is going to hurt a lot of people. Just what exactly all the derivative damage adds up to is unknown. It’s just one big black hole at the moment, and the unknown may actually be worse than the reality. prudentbear.com

To: russwinter who wrote (669)	11/29/2001 5:06:49 AM
From: d:oug	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39344

From Enron Metals site: Forging a Better Marketplace for Metals ... Enron Metals offered three new physical contracts and many financial ones. It expects to rapidly grow its number of products. As the metals market participants become more sophisticated and learn that it is possible to structure transactions to minimize risk and maximize earnings, the market will require more and more innovative products. ... [a safe bet] Enron Metals will be the one to provide them. ... [a safe bet] Enron Metals will be the one to provide them. ... [a safe bet] Enron Metals will be the one to provide them. thedeal.com Investors flee market by Donna Block ...[moreover,] shares of financial giants, Citigroup Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., are suffering collateral damage from Enron's stunning fall from grace. The banks, both members of the Deal Large-Cap Index, have loan exposure to the energy company. It is unclear how large the outstanding loan agreements are but analysts suspect it could be anywhere from $400 million to $800 million. Citigroup shares fell $2.75 or 5.44% to $47.80 while J.P. Morgan shares fell $2.30 or 5.8% to $37.50. lemetropolecafe.com [Start Gata Bill's Midas at his Le Metropole Cafe] The James Joyce Table Gold, Commodities, Midas du Metropole Topic du Jour 11/24 - Are The U.S. Financial Markets in Dire Straights? Right Now! The gold and silver markets... ... Citibank, J.P. Morgan Chase and Enron are ALL members of the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) in London. Isn't that quaint! Citibank and J.P. Morgan Chase are both defendants in the Reg Howe price-fixing lawsuit. J.P. Morgan Chase has 20 trillion of interest rate derivatives on their books. The gold derivative positions of Citibank and J.P. Morgan Chase rose sharply on a percentage basis the past couple of years. That was not the case at most other bullion banks. Enron prided itself on making markets and floated the notion that they were the world's premier derivative traders. Throw all of those facts into a neutron derivative bomb stew. Who knows what is really going on behind the scenes? But the action of the bond market tells us something is VERY wrong. I have been pounding the table on this for a couple of weeks. The bond prices are collapsing in the face of the Treasury's manipulation and going straight down in the face of terrible economic news. For example:... [Stop Gata Bill's Midas at his Le Metropole Cafe]