To: JHP who wrote (10797 ) 11/29/2001 10:34:04 AM From: kodiak_bull Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 23153 JHP, Trust me on this one, even before the recession began in 1989, the Japanese citizen was poor compared to many other countries, including the U.S., by any standard except foreign exchange. It's a comparison issue. A middle class Japanese has to live in 150 square feet of living space (600 square foot apart for 4), no car, food and housing takes up a huge percentage of his income, has 5 days of vacation, can only afford to buy a pound of beef per month, and overpays for every luxury. A middle class American lives in 550 square feet (2200 square foot house for 4 people), has a car or two, spends very little on food and clothing, spends less relatively on housing, has 15-20 vacation days per year, can afford 2 pounds of beef per week and buys luxuries at a discount. I was resident in Japan 1988-1994 and saw it all. The difference was that before the recession the Japanese corporations were somewhat well off, since the Japanese taxpayer and consumer had subsidized through self abnegation the expansion of unnecessary factories and production facilities and the purchase, below market, of world market share. Now, after 11 years or so of recession, both the Japanese companies and the Japanese citizen are poor. What are the examples of self abnegation? Well, vehicles, for example. Toyotas were (and are, I assume) more expensive to purchase in Japan than anywhere else. So much for shipping and handling and dealer prep. What's more, the Japanese had and have an insurance scam going called "shaken." The details are irrelevant but it basically forced the Japanese auto owner (where there are way too few roads or parking spaces) who could barely put 5,000 miles a year on his car, to discard it after 3 or 5 years and buy a new one. 15,000 to 25,000 miles!! Hundreds of thousands of shiny like new Japanese cars were then shipped off by wholesalers to Africa and the Middle East while the Japanese consumer stepped up to the plate to buy another new Toyota. Good for Toyota, a tremendous tax for the consumer. Food, housing, energy--everything took it out of the consumer's hide in Japan, just like the "shaken" system. We lived in a 2,000 square foot Western style house on 1/8 acre (maybe!) which rented for $12,000/month and would have sold for $3.5 million. Not surprisingly our Japanese friends (family of 4) lived in a 600 square foot apartment jammed with their stuff and toys. The husband was an office manager, the wife had a bicycle with 2 rider seats, front and back, for the kiddies. Hubby also had a bike, to get to the subway. They couldn't afford a car, or much else. Today, the husband has lost his job and the wife works in some government bureau. Not only is your average bank employee wealthier by far than your average Japanese, so is the average Korean or Taiwanese, in standard of living. It's only when you see the exchange rate or per capita income that the Japanese seem to be doing well. Trust me, the folks over there are on oxygen. Kb