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To: Maurice Winn who wrote (11586)	11/30/2001 4:50:59 AM
From: Moominoid	Respond to of 74559

Segregation in the South was still there into the 1960s. Effective segregation is still dramatic in Northern cities. I'd be happy to see whatever efforts are needed to equalize education opportunities etc. rather than giving affirmative action favors after the fact. The fact is though that stuff like the NSF just want to see that people from all groups are applying for grants rather than to give them any favor. This is also the appropriate action on equal opportunities for women. The key thing is that women are given an equal opportunity to apply for a job, rather than any favors when they apply. The playing field isn't entirely even with male networks promoting their candidates (actually fear of being sued for sexual harassment increases this factor) and sometimes deliberately trying to destroy the chances of female candidates (which I've seen).

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (11586)	11/30/2001 5:33:10 AM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Respond to of 74559

There's some (actually a depressing amount of) significant correlations between social status, income, etc variables and ethnic background. So, either there's causality involved (and you're first black, and then poor, cant be vice versa) or we're back to explaining everything away with genes - so easy, is it not... There's pain, suffering, hunger and injustice out there, Mq. (For starts) Jay would say "just IS". dj

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (11586)	11/30/2001 10:29:54 AM
From: LLCF	Respond to of 74559

<Native Americans have special rights in their own territories as well as claims on US citizenship = best of both worlds and they get bonus payments too.> The problem here is that we continue to want more and more of their nation... be it minerals, water rights, for them to change their way of life to be like "us"... so we pay. <I heard that slavery and oppression ended in the USA quite a few years ago > there must be some people in power that feel pretty damn bad to keep the programs going... LOL, Jesse Helms perhaps?? -ggggg- DAK