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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Michael M who wrote (40491)	12/5/2001 5:04:33 AM
From: angelachase	1 Recommendation Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

What an ignorant comment. From Websters: TORTURE... "1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain 2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding)..." It is really nice to be patriotic. But, it is far nicer to have a heart. One should care for life carte blance. One should not dismiss it. Nor should one turn their back on dying children--just because they were not American... Why can't guys like you just shut up your mouths in areas where you are uneducated? Surely, people are permitted to apoplogize. They are right to acknowledge the interaction of human personality as the engine of growth. But, when do you apologize? when do you understand? Those civilians, those kids...they were not GUILTY of anything. They were killed to rationalize a purpose. Those babies were merely "disposable life"; and perhaps they were divine life? And what difference would that be? The only risk to America was to people with uniforms on. Much has been made on these threads recently about the moral beauty of killing people with uniforms. Well...the children were killed...and the brave men with uniforms simply carried on. In hindsight it would be so easy to condemn this ugliness that cripples our confidence for the future. Surely, it was the second ugliest scourge on mankind. The murder of innocent Jews would perhaps come first in numbers. Patriotism demands we acknowledge and judge... It is said that 70 % of Japanese were prepared to surrender before the bombs were dropped. It is said that a naval blockade, together with the air control that was in place, would have brought the last of them to their knees. There were no American civilians at risk. Only brave American soldiers--fighting in uniform as military men. Oh, it is true that these soldiers were still at risk due to tropical infection, misadventure at sea, and irregularities in the air attack...but such risk was not significant. Russia, however, was significant...and therein lies a tale... The policy of American warfare (at that point) was to kill civilians (men, women, and children). The a-bomb was anti-climactic. Far more civilians had already been burned alive by firebombing of cities, than the atomic bombs would ever harm. children were being burned alive in the most horrible torture imaginable. Being vaporized was a walk in the park... ************************ It is not necessary that we condemn Truman...or any member of the political/military machine. But it is necessary that we judge (with the plethora of additional information which we now have), and realize that those solutions were cruel, inhuman, regressive, and the enemy of humanity. It is fair to say that the people at the time did not have the sufficient information to make the most decent and humane decisions. It is not necessary to condemn them for lacking such essential knowledge. But it is necessary to admit (in hindsight) that the fire bombing and (later) the vaporizing of innocents was inhuman and reprehensible. The kids who were burned to death before the a-bombs were ever polished--these were a hundred times greater than the lives lost in the tragic events of 911. Their language was different: much was different; but always they were innocent...and always they were human. One fire bombing alone burned up more civilians than were killed in Hiroshima. Hiroshima wasn't a new policy for targeting civilians. It was only the latest show of force. It is disgusting to see people make posts on this (Dithers, Michael, et al) who are clueless about the war. Why do people speak on subjects they are ignorant about?? Yogi is pretty much on track except for his need to characterize actions as cowardice or bravery. This is foolish. Actions can be done with or without fear. People can kill innocents with bravery or with cowardice. The morality of the act is not judged by the courage of the actor. The value of the act is independent of the fear of the perpetrater. But getting back to Japan: torture and burning of innocents--later, vaporizing of innocents. Japan was on the verge of surrender; but, in any event, there were no "innocent American civilians" (babies trying to learn to google and walk) at risk. People who shoot off their mouth that America HAD to bomb the kids to end the war, are ignorant or insincere. The Americans were burning civilians in the hundreds of thousands before the A-Bomb. Japanwas on her knees and looking for a way to surrender with a face...

To: Michael M who wrote (40491)	12/5/2001 4:18:50 PM
From: Yogizuna	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

By torture, I meant those who were badly burned or burned alive like witches in Salem by our disgusting fire bombing tactics. Most witches were innocent, but if you were around then you probably would have justified burning them at the stake because there was no other choice -- I mean they were putting spells on people, right?! They had to be burned alive to save many more lives! So you probably would have been the first one to take the torch to the wood at their feet.... Not all of the innocents were vaporized instantly by our A-bombs. Many were badly burned and suffered great torture, so please think things out before you type and act rude here. Thank you.