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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (40504)	12/5/2001 5:41:52 AM
From: angelachase	1 Recommendation Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

it may be that the juridical emphasis on the Crucifixion was mistaken, and that the primary purpose was mystical. Christ overcomes sin and death, that we may overcome sin and death through Him. Insofar as He is true God and true Man, He is the first fruit of redeemed Humanity, and, through grace, we become like Him, so that we may eventually conquer both sin and death as well....... It is never too early to masturbate. Oh, wait a minute. Here come my guy...

To: Neocon who wrote (40504)	12/5/2001 12:47:41 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

Morning Neo I just went back and re read your original post to which I took issue. After doing that, I still believe that the use of propitiation is key. You assert that; "if God had wanted, He could have forgiven us without the Crucifixion, but that He wanted to show both aspects of His nature to us, the aspect of justice and of mercy, insofar as He loved us enough to offer His Son." To which I reply, absolutely not! Absent the cross, God's righteousness would be compromised, and His Just wrath would forever remain un-quenched. The fact that He chose to pour out that wrath on Himself rather than we who deserve it, does "demonstrate" a lot, but it is not a show. It demonstrates the awful reality of sin. As an aside I don't believe that Sin adhered to Christ in any way at all. Neither His humanity or His Divinity. Christ paid the price of our sinfulness by taking the just punishment at the cross, but this in no way made Him a sinner. If it had then He would have remained dead. The resurrection proved that Christ broke the power of sin which was death. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. Hebrews 2: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord. 1 Cor 15: The physical death Of Christ is at least as important as the physical resurrection. Have a good day Neo Greg