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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (207399)	12/5/2001 5:00:09 PM
From: jlallen	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

All these weapons are operated by humans. Humans tend to be fallible. The munition involved in this loss was a J-DAM smart bomb. It is targeted using GPS technology. So even weahter conditions should not affect accuracy. BUT, the J-DAM is programmed by humans, using information developed by humans. On occasions, accidents will occur. Live fire exercises and actual war itself is obviously exceedingly and inherently dangerous.

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (207399)	12/5/2001 5:30:55 PM
From: Skywatcher	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

Well in the mean time on the home(less) front....the republicans are doing their usual great job..... GOP Holds Up Homeless Vets Bill By FREDERIC J. FROMMER, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - Less than three weeks after Senate Republicans dropped an anonymous hold on Sen. Paul Wellstone's homeless veterans bill, an anonymous Republican has reinstated the hold. ``I can't believe it!'' a red-faced, finger-pointing Wellstone shouted on the Senate floor Tuesday. Wellstone, D-Minn., said that he, in turn, would block all non-emergency GOP legislation - repeating last month's political theater. On Nov. 15, the Republicans reached an agreement with Wellstone in which they dropped their hold, and he dropped his hold on GOP legislation extending a moratorium on Internet-related taxes. The Senate then approved Wellstone's bill on a voice vote. A House-Senate conference committee reconciled slightly different versions of the homeless veterans legislation, which would add just under $1 billion in homeless services over the next six years. But when Wellstone brought it up Tuesday under a procedure reserved for non-controversial legislation, Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, objected. ``I'm sorry that I have to do this,'' Craig said, volunteering that he was not the senator who had a hold on the legislation. Wellstone said in an interview later that he had no idea why the bill was being blocked. ``But the one thing I do know is, I used to do some organizing with street people, and this time, it's going to be an even more fierce fight,'' said Wellstone, a former community activist. ``I know how to fight here, and I know what my leverage is.'' The republicans are willing to forego BILLIONS in tax revenues for the beloved and incestuos CORPORATE bedfellows, but when it comes to HOMELESS VETERANS....(you remember them? the ones that dealt with FRIENDLY FIRE on a daily basis?) THE COULD GIVE A SHIT.....if it doesn't mean money in their stinkin pockets.....you're toast.....whether you offered your LIFE FOR YOUR COUNTRY OR NOT! CC

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (207399)	12/5/2001 6:03:08 PM
From: Srexley	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

"or as some folks who depersonalize these tragedies" And some insult or country and our soldiers with their insincere holier than thou attitudes. This is the kind of crap that you support with your post. "that fact that we lose most of our soldiers from friendly fire is pathetic...." Chris Considine Also - I noticed that you never responded to my post that called you out for mis-stating my post to you (purposly I feel). You are as pathetic as Chris.

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (207399)	12/5/2001 8:27:25 PM
From: Thomas A Watson	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

Karen, the only posts I've read the intone or imply the term collateral damage to deaths from friendly fire would be from CC. This is sad event and any hint of criticism or questions that hint of anything untoward from anyone who is ignorant of the technology is the height of bad form. I have worked on weapons systems that have autonomous homing. I worked on the redesign to relax the logic. This was a balance to increase safety. The weapon is shot with logic that evaluates and rates targets. The launch vehicle has all the characteristics of a target. Other logic is added to minimize the possibility of homing on self. Artillery and bombing is also a system or process with inherent danger of errors or mistakes that can kill by friendly fire. There are still a lot of inputs based upon human communications and interpretation. There is also technical failure. Why do people shoot themselves? Why to people cut themselves. Why do people drive cars into a wall. Is it because the technology is inaccurate. Or was the technology accurately placed unwisely. My daughter is a veteran and served in the Army core of engineers. My daughter went to artillery training. The veteran artillery instructor gave her the name the Steal Rain Queen. The training called for observing a target vehicle and calling in a ranging round. My daughter watched a few shots ranging different targets and noted the ranging shots. When she was given her target she computed the range and bearing. She gave the numbers for the ranging round and the training officer asked if she was certain. My daughter answered absolutely. The training officer called steal rain and explained that the tank was ranged dead center. My daughter got a nickname. But she shrugs her shoulders and says it was just an educated guess. She said absolutely because it was her best guess. Humans can make mistakes. Fatique can cause errors. Pathetic is a sick observation. You made the assertion that accidents happen more than reported. Well why do you say that? Do you believe that??? I know it's not true. tom watson tosiwmee

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (207399)	12/5/2001 9:06:25 PM
From: DOUG H	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

Acording to a Vietnam vet friend of mine who operated artillery, American loss due to friendly fire happened a lot more often than was publicized. You're right. That's because the liberal leftist press was covering for Lyndon (Democrat- Gulf of Tonkin-big LIE) Johnson. BTW did'nt he escalate the war and then QUIT?? Some Great Society....

To: Karen Lawrence who wrote (207399)	12/5/2001 10:03:08 PM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

When will people "get it". This is not the same military which fought in Vietnam! It's much better trained, much better led, much better motivated, and a WHOLE heck of a lot less under the influence of drugs and alcohol. They might not have been killed if the liberal Democrats in congress didn't cut back on the necessary funding to buy the best technology available. The cutbacks in military weapons research and development during the Clinton years profoundly effected our readiness capability. Americans who are saddened by the deaths of our service members during war, should remember that the next time we have a prolonged period of peace. We can still thank Ronald Reagan for building up the technology, pride and leadership components of our military to survive as well as it has, during the Clinton knife cutting, and morale killing years.