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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: maceng2 who wrote (13148)	12/7/2001 7:50:50 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Pearly, Sounds to me like the British left's usual unquestioning acceptance of PLO spin, a la the Guardian. This Palestinian wailing about bantustans only started about nine months after Camp David -- at the time, all the negotiators said they were very close to a deal on borders but the talks broke down over the 'right of return'. By Taba, Barak offered to dismantle 80% of the settlements, so whatever map they're showing has little to do with the case. And as always, the Palestinians could have made a counter-offer if they didn't like the deal. They didn't. The Israelis have always been terrified of annexing the territories due to demographics -- within 20 years, Jews would be a minority. If they were terrified before, it's an absolute non-starter now. Arafat is on the edge of being "crushed" now because he started a low-grade war against the Israelis, and they have finally won maneuvering room from the US to fight back. The Israelis had the idea that when they gave Arafat land and guns and legitimacy in 1993 in exchange for his recognizing Israel and renouncing violence, it was a binding deal. Arafat never had any such notion. To him, negotiation and violence are not exclusive, as they are to the Israelis; they're complementary. While he talked peace in English, he assured his audience in Arabic that he was just implementing the PLO's "Plan of Phases" for destroying Israel. He used the Olso framework as a smokescreen for continuing the armed struggle, aka terrorism. The Israelis now see that Oslo was a mirage, and that all their Arab neighbors have their hopes up again that they can wipe Israel off the map, by political means if not by military. The Israelis are grimly working on re-establishing their deterrence capability.

To: maceng2 who wrote (13148)	12/7/2001 7:57:52 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 281500

What do you think of it's content? and how should the matter be settled now? Should "Palestinians" become Arab Israeli's, and West bank becomes part of Israel? Quite honestly, I think it may be a better deal for the Palestinians, provided they become "equal" citizens in Israel. If that happened eventually there would be no Israel because Palestinians will probably come to outnumber Jews in Israel if the West Bank and Gaza become part of Israel and the inhabitants are given full citizenship. Can you imagine Israel with Arafat, or more likely now that he is losing popularity, someone like Abdel Aziz Rantisi as the Prime Minister... Tim