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Gold/Mining/Energy : Canadian REITS, Trusts & Dividend Stocks -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lorne Larson who wrote (2232)	12/16/2001 10:38:37 AM
From: Goldberry	Respond to of 11633

I see Peter has posted a record number of posts over the past several days none of which I have any interest in reading as I will bet they all say the same thing regarding his spin. I have no problem with Peter and his approach but as I have said before and pointed out by you in your post, this back and forth between certain forum members and Peter started early this year when it was hypothecated that the oil and gas trusts were hitting the top of there cycle and one should consider taking some money off the table and delaying any purchase until more opportune times. In the face of this Peter did all new arrivals to these trusts a disservice by continuing to spout this buy anyway because if you hold for the long term it will not matter. Well it does matter anyone who didn't already have a low cost base, as he and others have, who bought this summer face possibly a lengthy hold before the trusts move back up to their average cost and are now receiving lower payouts. Sure Peter will argue that they can average down by buying double and triple what they had but many seniors buying these for income don't have the funds to do that. I would have more respect for Peter if he was prepared to admit that his way is not the only way and in fact for those getting in at this time (back in the summer) other income trusts ie: REIT's, Pipelines (pif.un), Power generation, might have been a better way to go.

To: Lorne Larson who wrote (2232)	12/16/2001 11:36:17 AM
From: Peter W. Panchyshyn	Respond to of 11633

The debate here is not their value as a solid investment over time, but rather whether you can make MORE money by moving in and out of them. I'm not talking about day trading here. I'm talking about treating these things as a cyclical commodity. ----------------- You haven't shown by any supported documented and verifiable trade that it is MORE. Quite simply traders miss opportunities and they miss and get it wrong more times than they succeed. That is born out by any major study done on trading. Take joe average investor or joe semi-skilled so called "trader". His trading is based more on hype and speculation than on fact and he suffers for it. The first sign of a little trouble and he gets scared panics and sells at losses. This eats away at any gains he may have. Then one has to take into account the costs associated with doing all that trading. Not to mention the time and effort that is involved. THAT IS ALL FACT ----------------- In that regard there can be no debating the fact that it was smart to get out of these things in May or June. At that time you were publicly stating that the oil and gas trusts were "oversold", and you were pumping them hard. ------------ You have not even demonstrated it was smart to get out of them. Your own look at my purchases of NCF in the last six months when corrected for, with the complete info documented from my postings , show a cost base which is close to todays value add to that the income paid out, and what do you have I am ahead of the game as I stated. The losses you claimed for me ARE NOT THERE. Yes I publically stated the trusts were oversold they still are I was not """pumping them hard""""" my exact words was that they should be accumulated on any weakness going forward. Now what does accumulate mean????????? Surely you don't have difficulty with that do you??????????? It is a very simple concept. ----------------- You were laughably wrong. --------------- How wrong is it to be ahead of the game as I have demonstrated with clear documentable past postings. What is laughably wrong is to have shorted NCF then to have to close out of it because it rose. How much did you lose on that "superior trade" ??????? Now compare that loss of yours to my results with NCF at that time. Its price had risen to $14.80. My cost base close to $12 and then add to that the income earned. There is no comparison I was MORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats something that is documentally supported by time and date stamped posted evidence. CASE CLOSED. --------------------------------- I wouldn't keep harping on it except that, quite frankly, you're an arrogant Johnny one-note who can't accept that any trading strategy except your own has any merit. -------------- Where is the merit in your strategy when in the case above you were dead wrong and sufferred a loss.????? Then compare that to me being ahead. And ahead now still with the income taken into account. That bit of name calling sure adds that extra supporting touch to your argument. I trust the others can see it for what it is. Why is that when you cant show facts that hold up to further testing / scruitiny its the name calling???????? GROW UP. ---------------------- Instead of repeating buy and hold, buy and hold, buy and hold ad nauseam, why don't you contribute something useful to this forum. ------------ I have not been repeating buy/hold. I have detailed my strategy which can be tested and authenticated see post # 1998. I have detailed my purchases and my trades which also can be authenticated with documented past postings ( which I have done and which I will continue to do as long as you want this little game to continue) I have gone over the documented postings of the "superior traders" where they are available to show just how not superior they really are. And where they are not available I have asked (no demanded) that they be produced so that all may verify them for themselves. There have be a number of postings from other members thanking me for such contributions and for keeping the discussion balanced and in perspective. I can produce one documented as such evidence if you like. ------------------ Do you think the oil and gas trusts are a buy now or are they going lower? ------------ They are an accumulate now as I have stated. I am not a fortune teller I have a proven strategy and I follow it religiously without fail. And by the documented evidence it has not and will not fail. It will pay me more and more each month sometimes as a result of getting more units are cheaper prices or because the commodity price is high or because of my trades with the special situations (rights and warrants) when they arise. The value of the holdings will rise and fall time after time because of the rise and fall of the commodities but because of the cyclical nature of the beast it will allways cycle higher from time to time and I will enjoy all the gains that result from that. Because I don't sell I don't realize any losses at the low end and only wait for the upturn to come to erase the unrealized losses and turn them into gains ---------------------------------- If you think they're a buy which ones and why? ---------- I think they are an accumulate. The ones I currently hold. Because I can reduce the cost base (especially for the ones bought more recently) and because I can increase my monthly income too boot. ------------ Which ones would you avoid and why? --------- Not quite sure. Maybe some of the more newer ones. No track record. Maybe the ones I don't already have. Deciding on new ones takes time to go over the trading numbers takes time to go over the particulars of each particular one ( the financials and the operations side ). Accumulating on weakness is a proven NO-BRAINER very little effort , very little time involved. When prices high just sit and enjoy the income and wait for a fall wait for weakness. When that comes then start to accumulate on any all weakness as long as it lasts. When prices become high again just sit and enjoy the income and wait again. Thats the nature of the investment. Thats the best way to play them. Demonstrated and documentable results that all can verify for themselves with the documented evidence contained in these postings. Of course one could trade them if they like. If they want to spent the time and effort. If they want to hit some and miss others gain on some and lose on others with the losers outnumbering the winners and eating away at any gains and paying the costs of doing so. HEY BE MY GUEST. Just don't fool yourself and don't try to fool joe average. RETURNS FROM TRADING ARE NOT SUPERIOR. As I demonstrated here, looking to yours others record of failures. DOCUMENTED Then comparing that to mine DOCUMENTED. Oh don't get me wrong there are probably 1% of traders maybe a little more who can approach what I do and have done so, maybe they are even a little better, hell maybe a lot better. But they are not the norm they are the exception. And not one of them has demonstrated himself to be here with documentable evidence, that is very very clear. ----------------- I'm leaving you off ignore until you respond. If it's more of the same "buy and hold forever" drivel, you're back on ignore forever. -------------------- Funny how you have gone from going to show me as a fraud. By asking for all my documented proof. And once when it becomes abundantly apparent that what I say is true and backed by real and solid evidence (time and date documented here in these past postings) . That part just seems to disappear. I was so looking forward to the game. Oh well maybe next time or another "superior trader" will step up to the plate to continue it. LETS ALL HOPE SO. Stan turned out to be a lot more fun. Though that was getting tiresome I have to admit. Well I am sure that avenue with Stan will rear up again. It allways seems to. Just when you think its finished ,bam, its there again. So in closing for all the "superior" traders out there drop the superior , drop the your method has more merit than mine, drop the your results are better than mine. Or provide the evidence to back that up. Defend it as I have defended my end. DOCUMENTED DOCUMENTED DOCUMENTED I or others can take it apart, or applaud it ,as it is due. Then joe average investor can look at the both and complete sides and decide for himself which way he wants to go for himself ---------------------- ----------- PS - Your sure you dont want to cover the trades with the rights and warrants I can get the posting #'s that you and the others can verify with. How about the other trusts and how the additional accumulating has made for the same, stable or well ahead of the game as in the case of NCF, or an increase in monthly income. Some of the others show much better results. Well for any lurkers out there who are interested in more of the same Documented evidence and support for anything I have presented please feel free to ask. At the very least it is apt to promote some good discussion. You may even learn something. A VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL --------------