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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: dvdw© who wrote (14660)	12/25/2001 1:39:50 AM
From: SirRealist	Respond to of 281500

Do you forget that the model document of liberty you refer to granted it to landowning white males, excluded women entirely, as it did for the 3/5th of a black person? I don't argue the basic premise about liberty being a desirable end, but suggesting it can occur w/o revolution or government intercession is hard to accept. And historically, the outcome of most revolutions is a replacement government that is more repressive. Maybe he didn't use the term directly, but Indyk, I thought, was saying pressure those governments to get out of the way of personal liberty so it can flourish.

To: dvdw© who wrote (14660)	12/25/2001 11:36:58 AM
From: LindyBill	Respond to of 281500

The US Constitution is the only Revolutionary historical document in two thousand years Sorry to disagree, DV, but the Constitution is one of the most repressive documents ever written. It gives more power to Congress than Hitler ever had. The saving grace was that Congress is two committees, and it took them about 100 years to figure out how to use the power. In the meantime, this country grew like a weed. The real Revolution is found in the Declaration of Independence. "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" sums it up. (BTW, Realist, the first draft included the slaves.) This country was lucky enough to be founded on the Philosophical movement known today as "The Enlightenment". It is the only country in the History of the world to be founded on a idea.