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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (41865)	12/28/2001 1:56:18 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I do not recall that you have expressed any feelings one way or the other about these dead. That is not surprising since we have never discussed it. You have acknowledged that the war would have lasted longer without the bombs, which is the same as acknowledging that there would have been more Allied deaths (including Canadians, who were volunteering at that time for service in the Pacific). It is not the same as acknowledging anything about additional allied deaths. Nevertheless, war does not "stop" on a dime. There would have been more deaths; and, after the surrender...there were. I believe your characterization of this added war duration was on the order of "insignificant." The context in which you stated this shows an attempt to equate my usage of "insignificant" with a lack of concern for human lives. Let me assure you that you have "misunderstood" the meaning which was being communicated. The bombing hastened the official surrender by some 4 or 5 weeks. When I qualified that as "insignificant", it was in the context of addressing the claim that such a limited time frame could cause sufficient allied casualties as to offset or justify the indiscriminate civilian deaths caused by the atomic bombs. In other words, if the war had gone on for another month, the overall suffering of humanity would have been much less than resulted from the actual bombings. I doubt that the earlier surrender had a great deal to do with lessening the allied casualty toll. To the extent that it did, all of us are, of course, thankful. The manner in which we judge ethical questions in the grand scale of the war demands that attention and consideration be focused on humanity overall, and not merely on the sorrows experienced by those affected at a parochial level. In war, the country is bigger than the individual. In peace, humanity is bigger than the country. We are all one people sharing a shrinking planet. Recently, this awareness has become more acute. The heroic efforts of those who struggled with the insane killers on that ill fated plane were not efforts of color, nation, language, or religion; Instead, they were the efforts of good people--people with values of decency. They were the efforts of good people taking a stand against malignancy and viciousness. In the same vein, the tragedy at the WTC is mourned by all of humanity; not because of the various nationalities of any of the victims--but because they were victims: because they were just innocent civilians, going about their business of being alive. It is not a question of nationality. The only thing our whole dialogue was about, from my perspective, was to indicate to you that there were legitimate ethical concerns that were worthy of thoughtful treatment, and that I did not appreciate your dismissive and rather arrogant presumptiveness. You have never acknowledged that there is a debatable issue. Indeed, you actually tried to use the misdirection of patriotism as "evidence" for your naked assertions. The really ironic aside to this little interrogation I put you through, is that I have not outright stated my opinion as to the whole affair. My time was taken up with trying to get you to admit that there was an ethical issue to be addressed. However, your manner of haughty imperiousness was most unflattering to any attempt at reasoned dialogue. As well, your subsequent attempts to justify yourself speak to a certain thinness of character. The fact that you are hunting around for words and lines that can be massaged out of context as a salve to your ego, suggests to me that the question of the war holds no interest for you. Rather, your purpose is to inflate your own sense of self, and to obscure the ignominy that you apparently feel. Perhaps you would benefit by stepping back from yourself just a wee bit...