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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: SirRealist who wrote (14890)	12/27/2001 8:10:21 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 281500

Sharon was a good soldier, no??? Which one has (global) time on his side??

To: SirRealist who wrote (14890)	12/27/2001 8:25:51 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

It's not that Arafat won't deliver, he simply can't. It does not matter if it's because others hold the real power Actually, I would opine that it's because there is no legitimate political system that forces the extremist groups to compromise their policies to reach a political consensus. There has to be some form of adherence to a political system which can be seen as representing the popular will of the people. Lacking such accountability, people really don't reflect upon the repercussions of their extremism, or at least they have the ability to disclaim responsibility because "it was beyond their control". No.. the biggest problem is that while Israel's policy towards the Palestinians is a reflection of the popular will (in the face of insecurity and suicide bombings), the Palestinians are being directed from decentralized power bases that hold primary loyalty only to themselves, and cow-tow only when faced with military action by other competing groups(as he plays one side against the other).. or Arafat's praetorian guard. If the Palestinians had a decent political system, you'd see Arafat FAR more concerned about how to feed and employ his people, than how to use the various groups as proxies for his attempts at bringing forth a Palestinian State born in blood with him insuring his place in history as it's founding father. Hawk

To: SirRealist who wrote (14890)	12/28/2001 12:14:38 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 281500

Look around the globe. See any leaders that have been in power as long as Arafat? More important, do you see any that have so consistently failed to deliver peace and/or prosperity, that did not get dumped by their citizens? I sure know of none. So why do Palestinians tolerate and support a leader with such a poor record? Do they have no self-pride? You could say they have too much self-pride, and Yasser Arafat knows how to play on it. Honor, face, shame, hatred, revenge, these are the buttons he knows how to push. He has made himself into a walking Palestinian national flag -- irreplaceable. Palestine suffers from too much Arafat; there are no strong lieutenants, no institutions that can become power centers; there is only Arafat and the multiplicity of security services and cronies, owned, semi-owned, disowned, whatever. At the end of the day, what Arafat knows is how to survive in the ruins he creates. And after puzzling over this for years, I keep coming to the same conclusion. If it is not because the Palestinian folks are incapable of how to have peace, it can only be that they really don't want to have it. Not now; not this generation. They have that gleam in their eye, that gleam that says 'we can get rid of the Jews as we got rid of the Crusader Kingdoms. It may take a hundred years, but we can wait.' It's been carefully nurtured. For this there is no answer but Jabotinsky's iron wall -- 'my will to stay here is greater than your will to kill me'. After the Gulf War, the Israelis thought the neighbors had finally accepted their existence. They were wrong. Thank G-d an old fashioned Zionist is in power while Israelis digest the bad news that Peres' Post Zionist "New Middle East" turned out to be a plan for national suicide. The Israelis need to get their own ideological house in order. If the Israelis break the strike -- this intifada -- and Arafat goes or dies, the next generation may be more pragmatic. The Israelis would vote a centrist back in fast enough if they thought there was anyone to deal with on the other side. If the New Middle East has proved bankrupt, so has Greater Israel and the settlements. But final agreements are off the table for years, I would guess. Abba Ebban's saying remains cruel but true: The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.