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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: SirRealist who wrote (15133)	12/30/2001 5:44:23 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

<In the case of India, however, because of its close ethnic and familial ties, I really have a harder time believing it's more than opportunistic sabre-rattling. > SirR, OJ cut his children's mother's throat. USA civil war usacivilwar.com USA independence war with Britain. Mao vs Chiang Romeo and Juliet Andrea Yates drowned her 5 children cnn.com Yugoslavia in tatters Ypres ...there's no end of it... Family fights are as old as forever... Several wars already between India and Pakistan Religious differences Much murder during partition They are fixin' to fight and will do so unless Pakistan pulls their damn horns in. Terrorism in India is as bad as terrorism in the USA. People hurt just as much. I will not be surprised if the second nuclear war is about to begin. What is surprising is that my decades of worry about the MAD Americans and totalitarian Stalinists turned out to be needless. Out of the blue come India and Pakistan, which will be a very limited nuclear exchange. The UN should go into overdrive panic and the world should revamp the bloody thing into something with teeth, constitutions for places like Afghanistan, Kashmir and the like, finances and sovereign power of limited extent [like the USA federal system]. While everyone blunders around catching terrorists in each others' countries and generally behaving like animals, we are not going to make much progress. The socialist bent of the UN has to be ditched. Telling people how to run their lives has to be ditched. A smothering, bureaucratic monster is not what's needed. George W and Tony Blair are in a position to make it happen. China, India, Japan, Russia and others would like it if something civil could be developed. The idea of Vanuatu having the same vote as India has got to go. Votes according to funding and population are needed. India voting to spend USA money is not going to work. Tony Blair is heading down that UN line. George W needs to pick up the pace and push it along. Jiang Zemin might like to be in on the act too. Putin and Musharraf too. It's really time for an international hui to sort it out. Maybe hold it in Kashmir or Kabul or Palestine to give it the right flavour. Hey, an international hui could be held in cyberspace!! theworldcafe.com A quote from that site... <...abu atu te mata ki te ao marama kei kono nga reanga e utanga. (Maori proverb) ....Turn your face to the world of light. The generations yet unborn are waiting there for you. > From the sidelines in Hobbitland, Mqurice

To: SirRealist who wrote (15133)	12/30/2001 8:13:04 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The question remains: does our leadership now maintain that all acts against a state by its lesser-armed citizens automatically become defined as terrorism, or is there some line drawn that we've yet to hear? Yep, that's the question. But the answer might not be articulated; just implemented. And be the product not of definitions but of available forces, strength of enemies, opportunistic alliances, and domestic (US) politics. John

To: SirRealist who wrote (15133)	12/30/2001 9:56:17 PM
From: arun gera	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>I really have a harder time believing it's more than opportunistic sabre-rattling. For one, India's leadership felt miffed that Musharraf was so readily embraced by the US at the outset. Certainly, the attack on Parliament demanded an aggressive response, and emulating more Israel than the US, India's leadership started making demands of 'shut up & deliver' to Musharraf, akin to Sharon's treatment of Arafat - despite the fact that they are entirely different animals.> You discount the Kargill incident of two years ago. It was a hot war, only that Pakistan and Musharraf pretended that it was the Mujahideen (and not Pakistan) that was involved. This was the first TV war in India. The media blew up the Kargill incident in a big way (or in the typical fashion of US media when US goes to war). The Indian Generals were on TV providing continuous updates on the situation. Since Kargill, the public opinion has got more united against Pakistan. Then their was the Indian Airlines hijacking, as a result of which the Jaish commander was released from an Indian jails, where he was being held for kidnapping and murder of US and British tourists in India. The hijacked plane was flown from India to Pakistan to Kandahar. The hijackers and the released prisoners roam freely in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And so do the perpetrators of the bombing of the Indian Stock market building in Mumbai. Then the recent attacks on Srinagar and Indian Parliament buildings. Believe me, Indians have a huge tolerance for terrorism and violence against innocents (in legitimate and illegitimate causes). Kashmir hardly affects ordinary Indians. The population of Kashmir is tiny. And anyway the only Muslim dominated area in Jammu and Kashmir is the Srinagar valley. And Kashmiri resident rebels have kept their struggle primarily in Kashmir. The secessionist movements in other Indian states were much more involved. Indian states had the choice of seceding from India until mid-1960s. Tamilnadu nearly seceded in the 1960s over the imposition of Hindi language. Violent movements have taken place in Punjab, where some Sikhs wanted Khalistan. Violence plagued Punjab for nearly two decades. The rest of India did not feel bothered until Indira Gandhi died at the hands of her Sikh body-guards. And thousands of Sikhs were sacrificed by politicians and mobs, as a result. But Punjab is pretty normal now. The Gurkhas in Darjeeling had their own violent movement which seems to have been resolved. Rebels in Nagaland continue their efforts.They bomb a train or two. And cross over to China for terrorist training. Naxalites (communists) use violence on and off in Andhra Pradesh and West Bengal. Tamil tigers were trained in Tamilnadu in India for a short time. Then Rajiv Gandhi sent troops to support the Sri Lankan govt. to fight the Tamil Tigers. As a result, Rajiv Gandhi was assasinated on Indian soil by Tamil terrorists. Indians were appalled but have not become particularly anti-tamil. Assam had a decade long strike to negotiate with the Central Government. The point is that India can solve disagrement with Kashmiris without Pakistani help.